My Wife Does Not Understand Me

[ThunderHorse]

For me to feel intimate with my wife, I would like to feel that she is loving ME. My wife enjoys taking a make-wrong approach to me, and more enjoys arguing, and then making up later, as a Love Making pattern.

I would like a little less volatility and a little more feelings of Love.

Therefor, I need a strategy for having my wife to better understand me.

This could be simpler, if my wife were not a type of person who is easily influenced by the opinions of others. So even if I explain my philosophies and opinions to her this week, in three weeks, her mind will have been taken over by ideas and values from other individuals and groups that have expressed ideas to my wife during the intervening time.

I am thinking of keeping a list of questions handy, that will lead my wife to remember my ideas, beliefs and values, so that she can value my point of view. and prioritizing.

What are my ideas about:

1. Preventing burglaries of the home.
2. Keeping automobiles safe for passengers.
3. Concern about Global Warming.
4. Concern about poisoning the oceans.
5. Growing World scaricity of safe drinking water?
6. Direction of Interst Rates.
7. Direction of the US Economy.
8. My civic Duties.
9. My special strengths to contribute through some valunteer work.
10. Views on Differences between religions.
11. Views on differences between the World's warring factions.
12. Likelihood of losing our pensions?
13. Likelihood of losing our savings?


So I intend to have these questions more freshly in mind, so when my wife expresses ideas that contradict my beliefs or priorites, Instead of feeling disapointed, I can simply point out that she is stepping on my toes, and that I am asking her to recall my beliefs and ideas. Hopefull, during recall, my wife will find a means of expressing her newfound viewpoints, that will be less contradictory, less make wrong of her husband(Me).

I can simply ask the quesiton, ans ask her to think about the question. I may not have to really discuss the issue again. I intend to refuse to get drawn into a debate. I intend to try to limit my comments to the queestions, to which she can recall the answers.

Perhaps if my beliefs could use further explanation, I will find a quite time to go over my beliefs in a manner she can understand my ideas, should she be sufficiently free from the influence of others, to consider my values.

,.

[Scott Haltzman]

Hi Thunderhorse,

I'm having some problems understanding the point of what you are trying to do.

Suppose your wife (and here I am going to use stereotypes, so please excuse me) really tried to impress on you her favorite shade of purple (plum, ecrue, eggplant, violet), her most reliable brand of mascara, the shade level on her pancake, the best time to call her girlfriend between shifts, and the name of the guy who gives wears the best cologne at the check out counter at Stop and Shop.

Would you care? Would you want to care?

What you might do, I would hope, is, for the moment acknowledge that the issue de jour is important to your wife, but why would you put your emotional energies into remembering the details.

I wonder if the things that are very important to your wife aren't on her radar screen as important.

That might be cause for alarm, unless you face the reality that you each bring strengths and weakness to the relationships. Perhaps she remembers birthdays of family members and sends out cards, or can really help you get through a rough day when something bad happened at work. Her strength isn't in recalling your position on interest rates; your's isn't on the proper hair color to complement a pink pashmina.

Have you considered playing to her strengths, rather than being vexed by her weaknesses?

Scott

The usual disclaimer: This isn't advice or medical information.

[ThunderHorse]

Dear Doctor,

I am not particularly concerned with my wife's shifting her priorites every few weeks, to match her percetption of current fads in the thinking of her associates.

My concern is that my wife uses her associates' ideas for the purpose to make me WRONG. So I seek to ask her to refrain from cutting me down, and express contrary ideas as considerately as reasonably possible. The first step is to bring to her mind the justifications of my values.

If my wife stated her opinions in a manner that did not purposefully contradict my ideas, then I might have a chance of not being offended. My problem is not that my wife has views that diverge from mine, but rather that she states her changing views in a manner to deliberately contradict my values.

I enjoy making others appear wrong. But I recognize that making others appear wrong, is insulting to the targeted individuals, and I tone down, or otherwise manage, my make-wrong instincts.

My wife has limited self-awareness, and limited self-confidence that would allow her to acknowldge her strengths and weaknesses. I am working wth Gary Smalley conepts of Beavers(Tireless Detail Workers), Otters (Creative, but not neat), Golden Retrievers(Calm and friendly, unless really pushed), and Lions(Like to be in charge, and in your face). Some progress. I have the Hidden Keys to Successful Parenting tapes.

In Scientology, one of the evaluation categories has three types of people. Suppressive, Balanced and Potential Trouble Source, PTS. Suppressive people are pushy, and try to get their way with bullying tactics. Balanced people can withstand the ordinary tactics of bullying, suppressive people.

Suppressive people are effective in dominating Potential Trouble Source people, who are overly adaptable. PTS people have low skills in fending off bullying tactics. PTS people sometimes have a tendency to seek to be dominated by others, and escape the responsibility of Feedom by turning over control to others.

I judge my wife to be somewhat PTS. PTS people are difficult to deal with, because they don't have their own values. PTS people change their mindset based upon the perception of force from others. So PTS people will take on values, if they Percieve a reasoned structure of authority, even if the source of the ideas is not suppresive, oppressive, bullying, or unfarily pushy.

Perhaps there are some terms for PTS people in Psychiatry. Maybe ADHD Traits, Sociopath, or Borderline Personality, or Bipolar.

The Scientology Cognitive Therapy for a PTS person is to assist the PTS person to gain skills and practice in fending off bullying tactics by others. Somtimes a relationship needs to be altered or suspended by the PTS person to achieve Balance.

My questions are designed to restore at least a partial balance for my wife, so that she can remind herself that my opinions have validity, and are worthy of avoiding put-downs. My opinions are largely based on logic, and I am willing to discuss the underlying logic at most reasonable times.

I do not seek to dominate my wife to take on my beliefs. I am primarily interested in ordinary consideration and politeness when my wife is presenting alternative views, that my beliefs should not be deliberately conradicted, disrespected, or made wrong.

My current approach is to think up some balancing questions.

My wife and I are both somewhat ADHD, and have an ADHD son, 30 years old, close to finishing College. One of the occasionally co-existing traits of ADHD is ODD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder. The MMPI test has a Rebelliousness Evaluation Category. The DSM for ODD was revised in Dec 2006, as I recall. The revision took into account that ODD transcends into adulthood. The earlier 313.81 stated that ODD evaporated at age 18, similar to prior definitions of ADHD.New Text: http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/oppos ... sorder.htm

I have felt that the ODD part of ADHD is a major factor in what causes a higher representation of ADHD individuals in prison populations. My term Make Wrong is an outgrowth of my study of the ODD component of the ADHD in my son. What Parents should Know About ODD by Dr. James Sutton, docspeak.com Link:
http://www.docspeak.com/

So it is difficult for readers to know if I am really a victim of a make-wrong artist, or if I am simply an over-bearing person, who percieves my wife as being overly non-compliant.

I am applying the philosophy that if something in the marriage or household bothers me, then I should be the one to take a lead in taking steps to alleviate or resolve the problem. I am defining the problem as that my wife forgets the logical basis for my beliefs. One possible solution is for me to devise a list of questions, that reminds my wife of the logical underpinning of my values. Just as basic, that if the bathroom sink has soap build up, that bothers me, then I can be the one to get out the cleanser and a sponge, then apply elbow grease.

.

[elizacol]

Hi Thunderhorse,

I may be way off base here with my suggestion and if I am please tell me so.

IF I am reading your situation correctly (and I'm not sure I am...I admit to being a little confused, but...I''ll give it a go)

Knowing your wife is the way she is, you basically are *choosing* to

1) engage with her in these situations that you obviously don't like to be in...that being her disagreeing/contradicting your thoughts and beliefs.

2) be offended when she DOES disagree, contradict, etc. your thoughts and beliefs. Yes, I did say that. YOU are choosing to be offended. Choose not to be. You KNOW how she is and why she is the way she is. THAT is her problem, not yours. Don't make it yours. How can you be offended when you KNOW she is the way she is.

You can continue this dance you 2 have been engaged in for who knows how long OR you can change the dance OR refuse to dance altogether.

1) Don't engage her. Don't humor her. (By this, I mean: it appears that she *enjoys* this little 'game' (is it a game?) that she is playing with you. Otherwise, why would she continually do it?)

I'm not sure who is coming to whom for these conversations/disagreements...
but stop. Stop having them. Stop engaging with her.

At least for the time being. Just stop the discussion(s) with her regarding these issues you hold near and dear to your heart. She KNOWS your position on them. Trust me, she knows. It is up to HER what to do about them. By engaging her on them, you are giving her fuel with which to disagree/contradict, etc. you.

2) WHEN these issues come up and she begins her game playing...don't play. Tell her flat out that she is being rude and disrespectful to the one she professes to put first among all others and that you don't appreciate it. Nor will you discuss issues with someone who refuses to respect your views. Then...DON'T discuss them. Walk away. Leave the room. Go do your hobby in the garage. Whatever. Just end the conversation right then and there.

If you are familiar with 180's courtesy of divorce busting...take note of how that works and make it your own.

She is *expecting* you to be offended. She is *expecting* you to want to stand your ground and argue with her.

Well, don't give her what she is expecting. Don't play her game (and I call it a game for lack of better term).

She won't quite know what to do. She will persist. It will take time.

Refuse, as her spouse, to be disrespected. She can say and do what she wants. You hold the power in how you respond. And know, in your heart, that it is her problem to deal with...that of low self-esteem and the need to put you down, follow others, etc. You can't change her. You can only change yourself and your own reactions. Change them!

So, now that I've rambled on and on...tell me if I am way off base with my advice and whether I read your situation wrong. I very well could have.

Hoping things improve!

Elizacol

[ThunderHorse]

Dear Elizacol,

There is a game aspect to my wife's criticizing. Not Biting, or arguing back is good advice, when someone is attemting to antagonize.

My questions may have the effect of participating in an argument. So far, I have kept to a matter-of-fact tone of voice, and the questions have served to be a sufficient reminder of my logic, so that she has backed off, or changed the subject.

But I feel that I am unwittingly playing into her hands, in some respects, and that I should do more to maintain a higher level of effort to keep up my own independent powers. Being lazy comes natural for me, and I do need to do some landscaping work, that would better weather storms.

It is common, and easy to picture that a man can be verbally abusive to a woman. It is more difficult to picture a woman being abusive to a man.

[elizacol]

So far, I have kept to a matter-of-fact tone of voice, and the questions have served to be a sufficient reminder of my logic, so that she has backed off, or changed the subject.


It is common, and easy to picture that a man can be verbally abusive to a woman. It is more difficult to picture a woman being abusive to a man.

To the first point...good!

To the second...I know. I imagine it happens far more often than anyone would care to admit...in marriages all across the land.

And actually, I picture women being verbally abusive far more often than I can imagine men being. But, I'm a woman and I know women! What they can't do physically, they make up for mentally.

Funny you called yourself 'lazy'. My husband is 'lazy', too...in that he works extremely hard at work and his home time is his down time...he doesn't generally lift a finger to do much and he isn't a handyman, at all.
He spends his evenings w/a book in hand.

It used to bother me....but the last year has really put things into perspective. Does it *really* matter that the things around the house don't get done as often or as quickly as they should? No. I've learned to not sweat the small stuff.

Anyway, break the pattern, somehow. I know you are working hard to end it! Just keep on keepin' on!

[ThunderHorse]

Dear Elizacol,

Thanks for the encouragement.

The make-wrong remarks/approach of my wife to my ideas is partly hurtful. But I can maintain my self-confidence regardless of her tirades.

What is damaged is my feeling of warmth toward my wife. So my response to her make-wrong communications is not simply self-defense or retaliation, but has the primary intent to preserve my love for my wife.

Further, denial is an important component of belief systems. Since my wife's values are transitory, so also are her systems of denial. When my wife's shadows of denial shift to cloud the underpinning logic of some established foundations of my values, my wife loses respect for me. For me to maintain my wife's feelings of honor for our marriage, I need to be able to reverse increases in denial of the logic of my values. When my wife loses respect for my views on political/religious issues, my wife's honor for the marriage is diminished. So it is important to maintain my wife's honor for the marriage, and therfor I need to address newly emerging areas of denial, that erode respect for my perspectives.

My evolving approach of having relevant questions ready to mention, to calmly reverse emerging areas of denial, seems to strike a balance between yelling insults back, directly contradicting my wife's new denials, and giving no response at all.

There is a dynamic of not criticizing your mate, but a better goal is to bringhonor to hthe marriage nad family. So this means not badmouthing your mate, but also speaking of attributes, qualities and achievements.

I have been attempting to speak to my son about his make-wrong appraches to his associates. Certainly it requires inteligent thinking to accurately crticize others. But a basis of trust is that the indivudal is trustworhty to not unnecessarily point out our faults.

My wife has been coming up with ideas to make me wrong from her relatives, and my approach recently has just been to avoid seeing her relatives. I just leave if they are coming around. This is not the best approach, as my wife can further engage in one-upmanship of further bad-mouthing me to them. My wife gets upset if I try to explain to her relatives about my side on issues between us. So my failure to handle my wife's cutting me down has had further implications.


62 Views
.

[ThunderHorse]

Dear Doctor,

In your earlier reply on this thread, you seemed to express the idea that I was wrong to be concerned that my wife has a habit of expressing her newly discovered values, each week or so, in a manner that contradicts my beliefs.

I found a website the espouses the ideals that a husband should honor his wife, and a wife should respect her husband.

Your post did not express any ideas of approaching my wife for increased respect. The Love and Respect website seems to encourage and direct couples to increase Honor and Respect:
http://www.loveandrespect.com/

[pvtguy]

[quote="ThunderHorse"]For me to feel intimate with my wife, I would like to feel that she is loving ME. My wife enjoys taking a make-wrong approach to me, and more enjoys arguing, and then making up later, as a Love Making pattern.

I would like a little less volatility and a little more feelings of Love.

Therefor, I need a strategy for having my wife to better understand me.

This could be simpler, if my wife were not a type of person who is easily influenced by the opinions of others. So even if I explain my philosophies and opinions to her this week, in three weeks, her mind will have been taken over by ideas and values from other individuals and groups that have expressed ideas to my wife during the intervening time.

,.[/quote]
ThunderHorse, your relationship with you wife sounds a bit like mine. The direction your taking I think might be a waste of effort though.
One thing I do know about my wife, is that she imitates her mom perfectly, and it is her attempt to get me to act like her dad.
I have just about given up on my situation.
Your wife wouldn't be a Taurus now would she? They are hard headed.

[ThunderHorse]

ThunderHorse, your relationship with you wife sounds a bit like mine. The direction your taking I think might be a waste of effort though.
One thing I do know about my wife, is that she imitates her mom perfectly, and it is her attempt to get me to act like her dad.
I have just about given up on my situation.
Your wife wouldn't be a Taurus now would she? They are hard headed.

My wife is Scorpio. Also a Fixed, or stubborn sign, Like Taurus.

I am doing better doing more unconditional listening, trying for 15 minutes per day. This seems to build up a reserve of favor with my wife, so she is less eager to find ways to contradict me. Proving other people wrong is one way to feel better about yourself. I am trying to find other ways for my wife to feel good about herself, rather than by slamming me.

I am also planning to be rejected, on any approach, so I can make a smooth retreat, and lay the groundwork for a future re-aproachment.

Before I approach my wife, I plan out my next re-approachment, assuming my advance will be rejected. This morning, my advances were not rejected, so I was pleasantly surprised.

Congratulations on having figured out your wife's agenda for your marriage. My wife's agenda seems to change from week to week.



..