"I love you but I'm not in love with you"

Postby elizacol » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:47 pm

First year,

I had to laugh at your questions...do you know anyone that has used the techniques? Do you know any success stories?

You're speaking to one! Me.

I found the book helpful for knowing WHAT the techniques were and how to apply them.

I found the website helpful for support and just to read and find
comfort in the fact that "I'm not the only one going thru this"

The website also kept me focused on what I needed to be doing. As I read the posts, little reminders would pop into my head...things I had been forgetting/failing to do, etc. It kept me on the right track.

What I really like about myself now is that I have become the person in my marriage that I should have been years ago. That I could have been, but that I was too stubborn to be.

Part of that change, I owe to divorcebusting! But, I did the work, I made the changes, so I give myself a lot of credit!

A big step: own up to what YOU have done to lead your wife in the direction she is now heading. Don't do it for her. Don't do it for your marriage. Do it for yourself.

Case in point...I NEVER used to admit I was wrong when we fought. That damn stubborness. I also RARELY apologized. It was always my husband that would come to me to apologize/make up.

I find that both of those come easily now. With humility. With ease. With grace.

I had to first admit that it WAS a huge problem in our relationship and that ONLY I could change the course.

What can YOU do to change the course of your current situation? Don't worry about your wife. Worry about you.

Be the change you want to see in your marriage.

With only 4 months under your belt, and little history of resentment, fighting, etc. you almost can't fail.

You have nothing to lose. Check the book out from the library. Renew it a couple of times. Take notes. You don't even need to buy it!
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Postby first year » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:49 am

elizacol

I long for the day when I can look back at my situation and 'laugh'. I'm not sure if you've read my other posts, but let me give you a little background on my situation.

Married four months ago then once we got back from the honeymoon, we started arguing quite a bit. Then one day she tells me that she doesn't 'feel' the way about me the way she use to. She tells me that she's willing to work it out. All of this is coming from left field since after all, we just got married and non of this was communicated before. Well, we move to a new city, and things are wonderful, everything, I mean everything is great. She tells me she loves me and she finally 'realizes' what she has. Then we go back home for Christmas and she has a hard time coming back. Then the same old feelings come back, we have the same conversation. In the conversation I bring up stuff like "why did you tell me that you loved me 3 weeks ago", and I wish i read that list before, that way, I would've just not even talked about it, because now i feel that she's really trying to distance herself from me so that I won't have statement in my pocket to bring up again, and now it's cold again.

We barely touch each other, we have small talk, and when she gets home from work she goes straight to her mac to chat online with friends. I've actually been doing a lot of what the lists says, and I can't stand doing it. It's not me. But if it works, I'll try it.

As for me, honestly, I'm a caring husband, who apologizes, listens, is considerate, affectionate and attention giving. I think i can be too nice at times which has allowed her to walk all over me. This I'll change. I just don't know how long I can do this for. What were some of the things on the list that you really worked well for you?
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Postby first year » Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:16 pm

Have people read this article from divorce busters? It's the 'marriage map' - the development stages of a relationship. I was reading it and was amazed how much it mirrored my relationship with my wife. Is this similar and true for most of you out there?

http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_marriage_map.htm
[size=24][size=18]
The Marriage Map [/size][/size]

As a long-time observer of relationships, I can tell you that, like children, marriages go through different developmental stages and predictable crises. But because people are unfamiliar with the normal hills and valleys of marriage, these predictable transitional periods are often misunderstood, causing over-reactions. Those who manage to weather these universal stormy periods usually come out the other side with greater love and commitment to their spouses. That's why I want to offer you a Marriage Map.

Stage One- Passion prevails
Head over heels in love, you can't believe how lucky you are to have met your lover. Much to your amazement, you have so much in common: you enjoy the same hobbies, music, restaurants and movies. You can finish each other's sentences. When you pick up the phone to call your partner, he or she is already on the line calling you. When little, annoying things pop up, they're dismissed and overlooked.

At no other time in your relationship is your feeling of well being and physical desire for each other as intense as it is during this romantic period. The newness and excitement of the relationship stimulates the production of chemicals in your bodies that increase energy, positive attitudes and heighten sexuality and sensuality. While in this naturally produced state of euphoria, you decide to commit to spending the rest of their lives together. And marry, you do. But soon, your joy gives way to an inevitable earth-shattering awakening; marriage isn't at all what you expected it to be.

Stage Two- What was I thinking?
In some ways, stage two is the most difficult because it is here that you experience the biggest fall. After all, how many miles is it from bliss to disillusionment? Millions. For starters, reality sets in. The little things start to bother you. You realize that your spouse has stinky breath in the morning, spends way too long on the toilet, leaves magazines and letters strewn on the kitchen counter, and never wraps food properly before it's put in the refrigerator.

Although you once thought you and your spouse were kindred spirits, you now realize that there are many, many differences between you. You're confused. You argue about everything. When you remind yourself you made a life-long commitment, you start to understand the real meaning of eternity.

Ironically, it is in the midst of feeling at odds with your once kindred spirit that you are faced with making all sorts of life-altering decisions, such as whether and when to have children, where to live, who will support the family, who will handle the bills, how your free time will be spent, how in-laws fit in to your lives, and who will do the cooking. Just at the time when a team spirit would have come in mighty handy, spouses often start to feel like opponents. So they spend the next decade or so trying to get their partners to change, which triggers stage three.

Stage Three- Everything would be great if you changed
In this stage of marriage, most people believe that there are two ways of looking at things, your spouse's way and your way, also known as the Right Way. And rather than brainstorm creative solutions, couples often battle tenaciously to get their partners to admit they are wrong. That's because every point of disagreement is an opportunity to define the marriage. Over time, both partners dig in their heels deeper and deeper.

Now is the time when many people face a fork in the marital road. Three choices become apparent. Convinced they've tried everything, some people give up. They tell themselves they've fallen out of love or married the wrong person and they divorce. Other people resign themselves to the status quo and decide to lead separate lives. But there are still others who decide that it's time to begin to investigate healthier and more satisfying ways of interacting. Although the latter option requires a major leap of faith, those who take this leap are the fortunate ones because the best of marriage is yet to come.

Stage Four- That's just the way s/he is
In stage four, we finally come to terms with the fact that we are never going to see eye-to-eye with our partners about everything and we have to figure out what we must do to live more peaceably. We look to others for suggestions; we seek religious counsel, talk to close friends and family, attend marital therapy, read self-help books, or take a relationship seminar. Those of us who are more private look inward and seek solutions there.

We more readily forgive our spouses for their hardheadedness, and recognize that we aren't exactly easy to live with either. When disagreements occur, we make more of an effort to put ourselves in our partner's shoes. We recognize that, as with everything in life, we have to accept the good with the bad. Fights happen less frequently and when they occur, they're not as intense or as emotional as in the earlier years of marriage. And because we're smart enough to have reached this stage, we reap the benefits of the fifth, and final stage.

Stage Five- Together, at last
It is really a tragedy that half of all couples who wed never get to stage five, when all the pain and hard work of the earlier stages really begins to pay off. Since you are no longer in a struggle to define who you are and what the marriage should be, there is more peace and harmony. You start "liking" your spouse again.

By the time you reach stage five, you have a shared history. And although you'd both agree that marriage hasn't been easy, you feel proud that you've weathered the storms. You appreciate your partner's sense of commitment to making your marriage last. You feel more secure about yourself as a person and you begin to appreciate the differences between you and your spouse. And what you don't appreciate, you find greater acceptance for. If you have children, they're older and more independent, allowing you to focus on your marriage again, like in the old days. And you start having "old day feelings" again. You have come full circle.

I'm certain that if more couples realized that there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, they'd be more willing to tough it out through the downpour. The problem is, most people fool themselves into thinking that whatever stage they are in at the moment, is where they will be forever. But it's important to remember that nothing lasts forever. There are seasons to everything in life, including marriage. The wiser and more mature you become, the more you realize this. The more you realize this, the more time you and your spouse spend hanging out in stage five. Together again, at last.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:42 pm

So what is working and not working for you now? What are you thinking of trying next? What is your wife thinking/doing?
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Postby elizacol » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:19 am

firstyear,

Oh, trust me, I can't yet laugh at my life over the course of the past year plus! In fact, I still cry about it at times. I just had to laugh at your question(s). (sorry!)

First, I never paid for the coaching sessions.

#1, I couldn't have afforded it and

#2, my situation didn't seem dire enough.

Throughout it all, my husband expressed his confusion about what he wanted and what he was doing. As well, he also expressed that he still loved me...he just didn't know if he could continue the way we had been proceeding. He (rightfully so) didn't know if he could believe me when I told him I would make the changes he needed (listening to and appreciating him).

That is (partially) where the 180's come into play. He *expected* me to continue acting the way I had in the past. I had to continually pull 180's in that I wouldn't react the way he expected. If he did something that once would set me off, I wouldn't get 'set off'. I practiced active listening, rather than what I had done in the past (barely listen). I acted on what I heard, as well...listening for little clues into what he needed. When I found out what he needed from me, during our conversations, I began giving him what he needed.

Other things that come to mind from the book, and that I practiced, are

1) Getting a life. Doing things w/out him. Trying new activities. Showing
him that I was fine with or without him. Faking that I was 'ok' came
into play, too. Acting 'as if' everything were fine, even though my
heart was breaking into a million pieces. I had to hide that, too. He
knew he was hurting me. It hurt him to be hurting me. I knew that.
The last thing I wanted to do was to add to his pain.

2) Stopping the begging, pleading, crying, etc. That only serves to drive
them further away. It puts pressure on them when they are already
feeling pressured and confused.

3) Talking about our relationship ONLY when he wanted to talk about it.
Again, the whole pressure thing.

I couldn't prevent or stop what was happening. His feelings were just as real as mine were. His need to 'go through' this was very real. It wasn't like he woke up one day and said, "I'm going to screw with my wife and make her life miserable". It was something that happened as a result of events in the past, dating back as far as his childhood, believe it or not.

You can't demand your wife stop feeling as she does. You can't force her to love you or to want to be with you (hence the 'stop the pressure' above).

What you can do is back off. Give her the space and time she needs. Do some honest reflection of yourself. Listen to your wife without anger or defense.

I'm not sure what other choice(s) you have.
elizacol
 
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Postby first year » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:22 am

Thunderhorse / Elizacol

What's working / what's not? I'm not sure because when I was affectionate and 'nice' to her that seemed to make me less attractive. When i was more assertive and more distant, that seemed to drive her away as well. Although I've only been like that for the past 2 weeks, so we'll see.

Although, something I noticed today probably has a lot to do with how she's feeling. As some of you may recall, she's been unemployed for the past 4 months. She just started working 2 weeks ago and apparently it's driving her crazy. She's been super stressed out and in essence it seems like that's what's been driving a wedge between us. She's going to quit today, so we'll see how that affects our relationship. Before we went back home in December, when she wasn't working, our relationship was great. Its just odd that it seems like she can't handle the stresses of work and marriage.

I'm going to continue to try the 180 steps but it's tough. I hate it. It seems weird that you have to 'distance' yourself from your wife in order for her to get closer to you. Why are relationships so hard? Did anyone read the 'Marriage Map' article I posted on my last reply? Does this ring a bell for anyone? For me, it was like reading about my relationship. And stage 2 should be renamed 'hell'.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:52 pm

The feeling that is intended from 180 Degree Divorce Busters, is for you to feel good about yourself. When a partner is having a rough time, there is a liklihood and tempation to be hard on our partners.

The Divorce Busters theory is that if you demonstrate a feeling of self-worth about yourself, then your partner is likely to re-evaluate blaming feelings, which might not be fully justified.

If there is a break to be soft, take it. If you get rejected, just be ready to back off again. You don't have to feel locked into distance. But you should be ready to back off to distance, if she bristles.

Being married is just like being single, except you have someone around to try to make you feel worthless. The challenge is the same. Find ways to feel good about yourself.
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Postby first year » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:51 pm

well, a little update. after a couple months, things are good. my wife 'loves me'. Funny thing is we watched this movie last night called 'bare foot in the park', a 1967 movie with robert redford and jane fonda, about a newlywed couple living in ny. It was like watching our story, only it was written 40 years ago... I recommend it to anyone who's ever had an experience like mine or anyone in their first year of marriage. hahaha
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Postby tknochld » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:23 pm

I'm glad to hear that things are going well for you! After reading the whole thread, I was actually worried about you getting lost in the swarm of information. I was... :P

I'm still new to the forum and I have alot of catching up I'm trying to do. My rough patch has already gone by, and I'm hoping there isn't another one as we both reach into our 30's.

The main thing I've found that has kept me married for 8 years (Most of it happily, I might add!) is communication. Maybe I'll come across a thread to share my stories and ideas, but for now, I hope things continue to progress between you and your wife!
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surprise surprise

Postby first year » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:10 am

tknochld - can you tell me what your rough patch was like, how long did it last, were both of you feeling the same way? was one more willing to 'fight for the marriage', while the other was willing to let it die?

well, here i am again. Wondering what the heck happenned these last few weeks. it seems like everyday is different, my wife always has some extreme emotion towards me. Since my last 'update', things got really wierd. She's stated she totally loves me, then the next day, she totally doesn't. Then last night she tells me she can't stand it anymore and wants out. I showed her the '5 stages of marriage' and she isn't even willing to go through the stages to get to #5. She seems convinced that the stage we're in now, we'll be forever (stage 2-3). This daily tug of war is really getting to me and I'm wondering if it's worth it. Do I stay? Do I care if she stays?

We had this talk last night, and I think I convinced her into keeping it going. Who knows what she'll feel like when i come home from work today. We're still in the new city and she wants to go back home. Do we pack up and leave? I love my job here, but do i appease her, back up and go back home? We both agreed to stay out here for at least a year and it's been 4-5 months. I think she's homesick. I think she blames her unhappinness on me because she feels trapped. If we weren't married, she would've moved home by now. What do i do?
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Postby first year » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:11 pm

after 3 great months, my wife told me that she feels as if we're just 'friends' and nothing more. She no longer feels as if we're lovers or soul mates. She doesn't know if there was ever any passion between us. I think, and I know that there was before. How do i reclaim this 'passion' that she desires? She has told me that I'm great, I'm always there for her and I'm a great husband and that she knows I lover her because I always show her love, but she just can't understand why she doesn't have passion or real love for me. She says if she can't find it with me she wants to leave me. What do I do?
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