Sex, or lack of it, in a long term marriage.

[Jonah]

Fom the main heading of this thread:

"Does passion die with familiarity? One psychiatrist, a contributor to this web site, offered a different perspective: "My wife and I have been married for 28 years and sex has never been better." For him, successful marriage increased intimacy and deepened sexual satisfaction."

I'd like to suggest that this guy's situation is the exception, not the rule for most marriages. The sex you have after years in a marriage is never, ever like the sex you had when you first meet a person.

Some couples can accept this fact and are (I won't say happy) but are content with sex with the same person over and over. Maybe the sex they had when single wasn't that good or maybe people have waited until marriage to have sex and know no other sexual partners than their husbands/wives.

But those of use who had great sex lives while single with a variety of partners know the great sexual desire and excitement you get pursuing and bedding a new partner. We remember the freedom we had to walk away when the sex began to change into a stifiling routine in order to once again enjoy the heightened desire of sex with a new lover.

Marriage traps you sexually and limits your sexual reprtoire. The thrill of the chase is gone forever and the joys of sexually discovering someone new vanish from you life.

Sure, it would be nice to be like the psychiatrist and his wife but that is pretty rare. The proof of this is in the number of men and women in marriages with desire difficulties. Women cpomplain they can't orgasm, men can't get aroused enough with their wives to get an erection or ejaculate. Couples become bored and sex dwindles down to almost nothing. Men turn to porn to try to enjoy the sexual variety and rekindle that excitment felt as bachelors with discovering someone new (albeit only in fantasy.

Sexless marriages, divorce, affairs, porn, boredom, sexual dysfunction. These are what most modern marriages are like today. Perhaps the psychiatrist could give us a detailed explanation on the secret of his sexual success. Millions of us would like to know.

[Scott Haltzman]

Perhaps the psychiatrist could give us a detailed explanation on the secret of his sexual success. Millions of us would like to know.

LOL, Jonah. Who are the millions of you, and why aren't you all buying my book!

In fact, one of the keys to reaching the level of happiness with your sex life as my psychiatrist friend alluded to, is to, over time, establish a deeper and more pervasive love for your partner. It's different than the kind of love that sets you aflame when you first meet. It's also a love built out of fighting through the difficult times you had together, and realizing that, when the dust settles, you're both still standing. It's lovemaking that grows from your shared accomplishments and works together, and from the times you've cried on each other's shoulders.

One of the obstacles I have, and one of the reasons I wrote The Secrets of Happily Married Men, is that women desire to have this level of connectedness from the get go, but it takes a long time for men to be able to recognize and handle these deep love feelings. They may know, somehow, that it's there, but they're not able to show it in the first few years (decades?) of marriage in the ways that psychobabble-oriented therapists demand. That's frustrating for everyone involved.

I'm all for helping the millions of you out there with finding a way to get there!

[elizacol]

Hi again, Scott.

Any suggestions for a spouse who has no interest in reading your book or any relationship book for that matter?

I have read it, simply because I think any insight gained is powerful, regardless of 'who' the book is targeted towards. I have taken some of your suggestions and applied them towards my relationship with my H.

Additionally, I don't want my H to read it because I expect him to do all of what you suggest. I want him to read it for the insight into what makes a marriage strong.

Elizacol

[Scott Haltzman]

Any suggestions for a spouse who has no interest in reading your book or any relationship book for that matter? Elizacol

Hey Elizacol,

I did write about this issue to Sadwife a few months ago. Here's the link.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... highlight=

It may not address your issue specifically, but it does speak to the challenge of asking men to do what is against their nature.
From what you've said of your situation, your husband is trying to reconnect with you, and so may be open to reading or learning about how he can do that.
One thing that I sometimes tell couples to do, especially if they don't want to be "lectured to" by a book, is to go to the Aim To Please chapter, in the section about Play (page 201). There are about a dozen plus suggestions on fun things to do. Perhaps you can crack open to that part, and pick one that he likes. If it ends up be rewarding, it might inspire him to pick up the book at a later time.

Now a question for you. You said you read the book for yourself (which I'm thrilled about). Can you cay what things you found in the book that you are able to apply to your marriage? How's it working?

S.H.

[elizacol]

Hi Scott,

I found many things in the book, but I will relay 2 that have been beneficial.

Your book may be written FOR men, but it doesn't mean that women can't adopt some of the techniques, as well.

A book needs to be written about Happily Married Women! Is that on your agenda, by any chance?

First, in our marriage it is HE who likes/needs to talk. AND needs to be heard and listened to. Not me. I don't have a great need to be listened to or to talk, like most women do. Example: It isn't often you will find me chatting endlessly on the phone. It's just not my nature.

So, your listening chapter was very helpful for me because he really has the need to be listened to. Growing up, he felt very insignificant and invisible. I know that has shaped him greatly.

I am a person constantly in motion. So, in the past, when he would try to talk to me, I can see that I was often doing other things...folding laundry, etc. Not giving him my full attention. In the car, I would tune him out after awhile, because quite frankly, it can get boring. Sad, but true.

So, now when he gets home from work, or when we are in the car, I make it a point to stop what I'm doing, earnestly look at him, and really listen to what he is saying. I have learned a lot about who he is, his fears, etc. by doing this. I no longer think of it as boring. I listen to learn ABOUT him, not just to learn how his day went, etc. It has been an eye-opener and I have figured out a lot about him by taking the time to just listen.

Second, I have made a checklist, kind of like yours in your book, in which I jot down things I want to do to make him happy, ease his load, etc.
It has helped me focus on him, remember him, while still being able to do everything else that I have/need to do as a wife, mother, and teacher.

I will see if we can read that section together like you suggested. It might help us thru the spot we are in. We talked last night and I asked him why, for the past 2 weeks, he hasn't been making the effort to step 'towards' me in our relationship, and he made the comment that he has tried, but the 'spark' isn't there right now.

So...

Each day brings new challenges.

Perhaps that section/chapter might help with that lack of spark. I am at a loss, despite all the books I have read. I have realized that ultimately, I can't control his actions, feelings, etc. I can only control my own. So, I treat him as I would want to be treated and continue to let him know that I am here for him and that I understand he is at a strange place in his life right now and that he needs time and space to sort it all out.

I don't know that there is anything else I can do at this point.

[Jonah]

Fair enough but those of us who are no longer sexually attracted to our wives
would have a hard time with any method to improve sex in the marriage, not just yours.

It also seems that love must exist in the relationship for your system to work, but that dissapears over time too. At least the kind of love that gets you hot for the other person. I think it's just a matter of familiarty breeds sexual boredom. This is probably why porn is a billion dollar business.

[HUBBY]

My wife and I have been married 25 years. sex was dragging the last 10.
Aftre trying everything under the sun, we came up with letting her chat and share pics with men (and women) online. This has gotten us both going and many of the people online, who were going through the same thing. It is a safe and exciting remedy.

[Jonah]

I agree and all I can say is thank God for the internet. It has allowed me to stay in my sexless marriage and give my kids something I never had, a normal two parent family.

Porn and especially cybersex has given me sexual release and with the latter, I have been able to reach out and get intimate with a number of women without even leaving the house. My wife would take the kids and wipe me out financially if she ever caught me having a real affair. Like you say cybersex is safe and with a little creativity and imagination, it can be a pretty good alternative to no sex at all.

[doncalypso]

I agree and all I can say is thank God for the internet. It has allowed me to stay in my sexless marriage and give my kids something I never had, a normal two parent family.

Porn and especially cybersex has given me sexual release and with the latter, I have been able to reach out and get intimate with a number of women without even leaving the house. My wife would take the kids and wipe me out financially if she ever caught me having a real affair. Like you say cybersex is safe and with a little creativity and imagination, it can be a pretty good alternative to no sex at all.

I don't see how cybersex can give you sexual release since your physical need still aren't being met. True you can pair up cybersex with masturbation to create the illusion of having sex with those other women online, but masturbation is such a pale and sorry substitute for the closeness of another person when having sex.


I just couldn't stick with a sexless marriage... I think there should be a law that bars a woman from taking half of her ex-husband's money and property if the divorce is the direct result of being in a long-term sexless marriage where the man has tried everything to kick-start the passion and she persisted in keeping things sexless.
Don't get me wrong---I do not believe in divorce, and I do not condone adultery, but if a man finds himself in a marriage where his wife consistantly refuses to have sex then he should get the hell out of that marriage and she shouldn't be entitled to any alimony.

[elizacol]

Don't get me wrong---I do not believe in divorce, and I do not condone adultery, but if a man finds himself in a marriage where his wife consistantly refuses to have sex then he should get the hell out of that marriage and she shouldn't be entitled to any alimony.

I didn't know very many women STILL get alimony, but I so agree with
this!

[Jonah]

LOL..well it's really a moot point. I've been in a sexless marriage for 16 years
and divorce has really never been an option for a number of reasons I have discussed in other posts. Real life affairs are stressful and logistically difficult and it's hard to meet women who just want sex without all the dating and dinners and whatever that married people can't do. And paying for sex can get very expensive and sooner or later the spouse will wonder where all that money has gone.

So cybersex and masturbation is fine compared to nothing at all. Everyone wants to live in a perfect world where great sex lasts a lifetime but that's not reality. You do what you have to do. It's that simple. There are millions of us out there. Many gather to discuss the situation and to find support from others. Those of you who find yourselves in a sexless marriage should check out this webiste:

http://p080.ezboard.com/fsexlessmarriagefrm2

[happy in PA]

I have been married for over 30-years. For many years our sex-life was like the Bonneville Salt Flats..... A long dry spell. It was never quite a sexless marriage but I certainly wasn't happy. Five years ago I was planning out my timetable for divorce (July 4, 2008 was to be my own independence day.)

Today we are happier and more active than we were at 25 and the sex is better. How did we get here? We either loved each other too much or were too stubborrn to give up on one another. We communicate. I make sure that my wife knows that I love her. How? I tell her! and I show her. Weekdays I am out long before my wife, but on a Saturday morning I will usually bring her her coffee in bed, or do something similarly simple like pick up a bunch of flowers at the market for no reason other than that she will like them. I will ask her "Are we okay?", or "How am I doing?"

After 30 plus years together we still shower together almost every night. She doesn't look like she did the first time we showered together, but then neither do I. The sight of her still excites me and she knows it, and can see it.

I have found that a good massage with some nice lotion almost always puts my wife in the mood to make sure that I receive as much pleasure as I have just given. We have learned how to take our time and enjoy one another. I try to be sure that she knows how much I love her, and how much I need to feel loved and desired by her.

That's all there is to it.

[elizacol]

happy in PA,

What happened over the course of the past couple of years that brought you and your wife to where you are today (closer, etc.)? Especially when you were planning an exit date!

We have been married 20 years and are working towards what you have and where you are at. With us, a crisis brought us to working together again and for that I am thankful.

Like you, we often ask each other, "How am I doing?", etc. For years, my husband was afraid to tell me when I did something to upset him. Now, I don't give him the option. I ask how I'm doing frequently and expect him to be honest!

I like where we are heading. We are both more outwardly loving and affectionate towards each other. At times, we feel like teenagers again.

We make sure we put each other first, not ourselves. Amazing how that works...you put the other person first and it is almost automatic that they will reciprocate because of the good feelings you have generated.

Thanks for posting. It is good to read that long-term marriages aren't full of negativity. I truly think you get out of a marriage what you put into it...especially the longer you have been married.

[happy in PA]

How did we get to where we are????

Several things. First better communication. I didn't share, and never will, the complete level of my disatisfaction. If my wife knew I was so unhappy that I had, as you put it, an "exit date" in mind she would be devastated. But I did share some significant hurts. For example, I would have liked to have had a night of wild passion for my fiftieth birthday, I got a peck on my cheek. And some other things of this nature. My wife in turn shared that she felt I only paid attention to her when I "wanted some", etc. I don't think that was the case, but that is not important she did.

So then what. The disatisfaction was front and center what did we do about it. One of the next things we did was to return to something that had been central to our relationship.... Our faith. We are believers, active in our church, etc. But, we hadn't really spent time, just he two of us, praying or in devotional study in years. We set aside a time for that every day. When I traveled, as I did regularly for work, I would call at the scheduled time, even if it meant getting up in the middle of the night on the west coast.

I decided that before I gave up on us I had to give it my best shot. Patriarch whatever his name is unfortunately only uses part of the of Paul's comment about submission and he misses the point entirely. Paul says that a wife is to submit to her husband as the head of the house just "as Christ is head of the church". Well Christ said He came to serve. In order to be worthy of that submission a husband has to be that servant leader that Christ modelled for us. My wife has to come first, and WE have to come before her.

For us, a return to our faith helped immensely. It grounded us.

We're not perfect. We still have the occasional problem but we are working on it and know that we will get through.

[elizacol]

happy in PA,

Thanks for your answer. Can I ask you something/can you help me out with something?

It has to do with another post you made, on another thread.

I would rather ask privately, however. Would you be opposed to that?

I think there is a way to send a private message.