Husband's Female Friends

[apple]

I'm hopping to get some advice. My husband became friends with this woman at work. It is common for him to have female friends and never was a problem with me. However, I knew them and we mostly spent time together. He also always told me about women that he interacts at work. This time, however, he seems to be secretive about this woman at work. They have lunches and he stops by her office to talk. He is uncomfortable talking to me about her and i have a feeling they had more lunches that he mentioned to me. Somehow, I sense something and start asking questions and then he says that yes, he had lunch with her but last time he blushed talking about it. I asked him why he was blushing (jokingly, not wanting to make a big deal out of it) and he said he wasn't blushing. He also said that one of his co-workers (also a woman) makes remarks about him interacting with this woman and now I do the same...

I don't know what to do in this situation. I am not comfrotable with him interacting with this girl. Should I tell him? Will it change anything?
Am I exagerating things?

Help

[elizacol]

Omg, deja vu!

Don't think for a minute that there isn't a reason for your husband's reluctance to talk about it or his 'blushing'.

Every marriage book I have read advises that 'friendships' between members of the opposite sex (when 1/both are married) are to be avoided.

Gee, I wonder why. It's not very difficult to begin to 'fall' for someone with whom you have close daily contact. Being married means (imo) that your forsake close friendships with members of the opposite sex for that exact reason. Too easy to 'fall', especially as troubles arise in all marriages.

From "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass

A healthy couple builds a wall around their relationship, keeping it exclusive. During an affair, the offending partner opens a window and lets someone else in, eventually walling out the spouse.

You have every right to tell him you are uncomfortable with this relationship that has formed. Whether he will do anything about it is up to him. *IF* he now has feelings towards her, he won't want to end it. The feelings are too good, to new, to fresh.

It is up to you to decide what you want to do.

[happy in PA]

Part of the problem in these situations is placement. What do I mean?

Well as a spouse we see our partner at their worst. We seem them with tattered t-shirt, or ratty old-flannel p-j's. If you talk it frequently is about irritating things. What did the kid break last night. Who forgot to take the trash out, etc. Then maybe we have a fight with them, or worse still suffer through years of malaise in a relationship.

Now all of a sudden you meet this presumably attractive member of the opposite sex. You really only see them at their best. They are dressed professionally for work and well-groomed. They speak to you professionally like a peer and an intelligent person. Your conversations are about things that you both enjoy and know something about.

It is any wonder that these situations are land mines. As Elizacol knows from previous posts of mine, I fell to at least a degree into that trap. There was never any physical intimacy, but honestly it was only because the guilt would have killed me, and my marriage. I can only imagine what the impact would have been on my then toddler daughter.

If you are correct and your husband is "falling" for this co-worker he may be like I was. In some ways I didn't even realize what was happening. I loved my wife, but felt like I was in a one-way relationship. When I did realize what was happening I convinced my wife to work with me to rebuild a marriage which had been dying a slow death for years.

Your challenge then is to be sure he realizes what he is doing, without appearing to be nagging, controlling, etc. That ought to be simple.

On the positive side, 22-years after the fact our marriage is better than it has ever been.

Good luck.

[elizacol]

I wanted to piggyback on Happy's post.

IF you were to be honest with yourself (which is hard), I would bet that
there are things that you need to change in your marriage and/or in your relationship w/your husband (I guess that is 1 and the same?!)

It may hurt to hear it, but NOW is the time for open dialogue and communication. I 'sat' through a year of my husband's 'friendship' with a gal from work. He wasn't willing (ready?) to give up this 'friendship' for an entire year.

However, I *knew* my husband and what was taking place was quite out of character for him. Because of this, I truly felt it was worth it to wait this out.

Meanwhile, I didn't just sit there 'hoping' he would come around. I didn't sit there like a doormat. I didn't sit there 'demanding' that he stop seeing her (ok..that happened 2-3 times...)

What I *did* was LISTEN to my husband, all the while knowing he really 'liked' her and wasn't willing to give her up and was still 'sharing' things with her on a daily basis.

It wasn't easy. He told me the hurts he had been carrying, caused by me. He told me how unappreciated he felt. He told me a lot.

It HURT to hear those things. It hurt like hell, because on top of THAT hurt was the hurt I was feeling because of what he was doing.

I listened anyway. And I changed. I became the person he married and that I was too stubborn to be as the years went by. It wasn't even that hard because I KNEW what was at stake. The love of my life.

I can honestly say, in listening to my husband and making the changes I needed to make, I am 100 times the person I was before all this took place.

And the changes I made have been internalized. I don't even think anymore about whether to apologize or not, it is just a part of my being. Same goes for so many things.

So...am I saying YOU are causing this? No. He is choosing to be friends with this gal and to be secretive about it. And who knows...it may all be for naught and truly innocent.

Regardless, open up the lines of communication. It certainly can't hurt and will only help, no matter the 'what' behind this friendship.

Be willing to listen, though...without being defensive, etc. The hardest thing you'll ever do, but so worth it.

[apple]

What would you advise me to do? I tried talking to him about it and about how I felt but he became very defensive. I don't think he will openly talk to me about this girl and will just hide it after I confronted him

What should I do? I feel it is better just to wait and not to do anything but at the same time I'm afraid thos friendship can develop into someting...

[elizacol]

My husband did the exact same thing.

Became defensive, denied, claimed she was 'just a friend, tried to hide it, changed the passwords on his e-mail and cellphone accounts, etc. (Gee...if he didn't have anything to hide, why would he not let me see the cellphone records???)

I couldn't do anything about that. Well, very little, anyway.

The fact was, it was out in the open. I knew. He knew I knew.

I can't tell you what to do, as no 2 situations are the same.

What did I do?

1) e-mailed the girl (she was also married!) and told her I was well aware
of their little 'friendship'. Mine was all of 3 sentences. She wrote back
a lengthy, 5 paragraph excuse/denial/etc. essay. All lies.

2) continued/began gathering proof. Many do not believe in snooping, but
there was no way I was going to 'be in the dark'. I had this thing
about them 'pulling something over on me'. "I'm not stupid" is what I
wanted them to know.

I checked his cell phone for calls. I found a way to get into our
cellphone account, and his e-mail. (He wasn't very bright with his
passwords)

3) As I found proof, he couldn't very well deny any longer. (Which is
what my goal was). Kind of hard to begin the honest discussion of
issues when one isn't being honest. I knew the only way I could make
him be honest is to show him I had the proof.

Once the cat was out of the bag, I began focusing more on what *I*
needed to do, as opposed to 'proving' that he was lying.

While he did stop denying his fondness of her ("she understands me"),
he didn't stop his communication with her. I knew I had to wait that
part of it out.

Luckily, during this time, my husband did want to communicate with me and work on our issues. He also attended marriage counseling with me. Because of that, I knew I couldn't give up. So I didn't.

Part of the excitement of an affair (close 'friendship') is the secrecy. Bring it out into the open and it loses some of its mystique. I knew that, which is why I confronted both her and my husband.

So, I would say your 1st step is to quietly investigate. Perhaps you are wrong. You could be!

[apple]

I'm struggling with definition of infidelity. If there is nothing sexual, does it mean he's not cheating on me? If he has lunch with this wman without telling me, is he being unfaithful. Different people have different opinions about these things. My husband said it was not a big deal in his opinion. He also insists that he telles me everything but I know it is not true. However, if they, for example, meet for lunch, talk via e-mail in a warm and kinda flirtatioous manner, does it mean, he's cheating? To me, he is lying, so he's cheating. To him, it's different.

Elizacol, how did you find proof of teh affair in the e-mails? Did they discuss sex via e-mail or did you get it from the tone of the e-mails.

I know something but I'm struggling to define what I know. I also have male friends but I would never hide or not mention them to my husband. That's why I have so many concerns about this friendship that my husband has. Also, why would his coworkers tease him about this girl all the time? He mentioned he's tired of them teasing him and that's why he became so mad with me when I brought up the issue.

Oh, I'm not sure about anything and collecting proof and waiting as elizacol suggests is such a torture.

[elizacol]

An affair is any stealing of intimacy that belongs in the marriage and giving it to another, whether emotional or physical. (courtesy of Anne Bercht. beyondaffairs.com)

I can't speak for your husband...perhaps this is an innocent, close friendship at work. However, IF you have read/seen flirtatious e-mails, then I would say that has crossed the line. That is more than a friendship and, imo, inappropriate if he has committed himself in marriage to you.

In my case, my husband stopped talking to me about the problems he had with our marriage, and instead, discussed them with her. She, likewise, did the same with the problems she was having w/her husband. In fact, that is how it began. Two people talking about their problems. It grew from there. No wonder they 'understood' each other....they were going through similar situations!

My husband's 'friendship' with this woman was strictly emotional, of that I have no doubt. Like I said, I knew my husband and this was so out of character for him. Our sex life didn't stop or diminish. Additionally, I was privy to many texts and e-mails. In the many, many, many that I read, there was never anything of a sexual nature or tone. They 'needed' each other emotionally, to help them sort out their problems. Now, that is not to say that at some point it would not have crossed the line. Who knows.

My bringing it out into the open and forcing him to talk about it/admit to it cooled things, I believe.

And yes, if your husband is lying, that speaks volumes. Why the need to lie if there is, indeed, nothing to it? Especially when he openly talked about other female friends.

Yes, different people have different beliefs about what constitutes infidelity. Throwing the term/definition aside...do you honestly think it is 'ok' for a married spouse to go to lunch with, call, e-mail, text someone of the opposite sex on a daily basis? Hell, does he call, e-mail, text, and go to lunch with YOU that much?

My husband didn't. That, in and of itself, should be a clue.

Have you discussed with him your feelings about this 'friendship' possibly leading to something more? Have you asked him, because of these feelings, to cool the friendship with her? Has he/would he respect your wishes? The answer to that question will also speak volumes.

My husband freely admitted he 'could not' give up this friendship. He did try, right after I e-mailed her, but within 2 weeks, was back to talking with her. All I can surmise is that, at this time in his life, he DID need her.
She was filling a need he had. No excuse, but the truth. I actually understand that. Doesn't make the hurt any less, but...

Once I understood that, it made what I had to do that much easier. He needed to be listened to. I listened. He needed to feel appreciated. I began appreciating him.

I can't tell you whether you should try to find proof or not. That is a personal decision. To me, without it, I didn't really know what I was up against. I needed to know in order to figure out what my next step(s) were going to be.

[happy in PA]

I'm struggling a little bit with some of this thread. There are female friends, and there are emotional affairs. There is a BIG difference between the two. As a man, if you say, "A man can't have female friends other than his wife." Then I have to say, "baloney". I have female friends, and my wife has male friends. Neither impacts our relationship.

I did have one female friend years ago who did impac our relationship. More accurately, the friendship was impacted by the state of my marriage. The nature of that friendship (nothing like a physical affair) was wrong and was long ago corrected when I realized where I was headed. I guess my point is not to paint all friendships with members of the opposite gender with the same brush. If I had lunch with the same male friend every day no one would be upset. Why should they be upset just becaue the friend is of another gender?

My wife has to be able to trust me. Trust is something that I hope I have earned over the course of our marriage. Just as I have to trust her. Likewise, that trust has had to be earned.

I know others may not do so, but I draw a very definite distinction between emotional and physical affairs. Both can be very damaging to a marriage, but each is also very different and probably have different causes and require different responses. A physical affair is not merely an extension of an emotional affair. That is, it is not the natural developoment, or final stage, of the emotional affair if you will, just as a "one-night stand", while wrong and morally repugnant to me, is vastly different from serial philandering or a long-term affair.

I'm not sure where I am going here, except to say that whatever our response to our spouse, it has to be motivated by our love for that person and our desire to make the marriage work.

My wife could not repair our marriage when it was at its worst. I could not repair it alone, but I couldn't concern myself with whether she was going to work with me or not. I had to address my own problems and make sure my love for her was apparent, and always out in front of her. If my efforts caused her to jump on board, great!!! If not I had given it my best shot. That's all I could do.

When we were at our nadir, my wife was not very lovable, at least not in my eyes. But as I forced myself to show her my love, over long periods of time, despite her seemingly unlovable demeanor, eventually she became loveable. Did she change? Sure to some degree. Did I change? Absolutely.

[elizacol]

I'm struggling a little bit with some of this thread. There are female friends, and there are emotional affairs. There is a BIG difference between the two. As a man, if you say, "A man can't have female friends other than his wife." Then I have to say, "baloney". I have female friends, and my wife has male friends. Neither impacts our relationship.

I am assuming you are talking about my husband's 'friendship' with the gal at work. Trust me, it was an emotional affair. It was more than just a 'friendship'. He admits that it was. Part of his confusion lay with whether he wanted to try and work out our problems, or leave the marriage to be with her because, "She understands me". He wouldn't have taken a year to 'figure things out' if this gal didn't mean something more than 'just a friend'.

Of course males and females can be friends, as long as a certain distance is kept. I, however, can't believe there isn't something to the advice from experts that I have repeatedly read:

Friendships between members of the opposite sex should be avoided.

If you want to read an excellent reasoning behind this statement (and I feel ALL married couples should read this!), read M. Gary Newman's book, called How to Affair Proof Your Marriage and 10 Other Secrets to a Great Relationship. He explains it FAR better than I ever could.

It is too easy for the lines to be crossed, imo, as well as the experts' opinions. My husband's situation began as coworkers, who then became friends, who then became 'friends'. Didn't yours??? Where, then, did it lead? Regardless of WHY it led where it did. The fact remains...one never knows WHAT might cause the boundary lines to shift.

It isn't a risk I would be willing to take. To each his own, however. What other people do to risk their marriage is on them. I can only live by my beliefs and set of morals, and my own personal experience.

Hell, I keep my distance from male co-workers and yet, through required daily interaction, have felt pangs of attraction, going both ways. This, without the *need* to be understood, made to feel attractive, etc. Throw into the equation one's need to feel worthy, attractive, desired, etc.(my husband's situation, due to an unloving, difficult childhood), and the risk of crossing the line increases greatly.

I have extremely high self-esteem, thankfully, as well as a strong sense of right and wrong. Had I not, I could easily have 'fallen' when I felt the pangs of attraction. Instead, I took the high road, and backed off from the interactions. Not that difficult.

For those who are serious about committing to their marriage, making it last for life, and not doing anything to jeopardize it, avoiding the formation of close friendships with members of the opposite sex isn't that difficult. It's a small sacrifice to pay for maintaining a loving and successful marriage. But, again, to each his own.

And I'm sorry, lying about a friendship, lying about going to lunch, lies of ommission (not telling your spouse you went out for drinks with a 'friend' from work)...etc...not exactly building trust there. Sure, if one's spouse doesn't KNOW their spouse is going out to lunch, texting, e-mailing, etc. he/she is going to 'trust' their spouse. That, however, is false trust. Not exactly a strong foundation for marriage....rather it is likely to crumble because the trust is based on lies of ommision.

Trust comes from being open and honest, not from hiding things and pretending to one's spouse that they don't exist...even if they existed in the past, and have since ceased to exist.

[elizacol]

(Message being edited, as I couldn't find a delete option).

[apple]

Happy in PA - Thank you for your feedback. You confirmed what I was thinking. We do have some problems in our marriage and I feel that my husband's friendship with this girl may evolve into anything (or even started in the first place )because of it. Are you saying that being good and expressing love to my husband will help me avoid this friednship developing into something more? This is what I think as well.
The reason why I have some concerns about this firndship is because he doesn' tell me much about this girl (and he speaks freely about his other female friends and co-workers). Also, he mentioned that hi co-workers tease him about him interacting with this girl. Can they do it for no reason? Why doesn't he want to mention her to me?
From the male's perspective, what do you think? Can it still be just a friendship or is my husband trying to keep his options open (bevause, we have issues ro for some other erasons)?

[happy in PA]

CAN it be just a friendship, sure! Is it just a friendship or is he "trying to keep his options open". I can't say. Only he can answer that.

I certainly agree with Elizacol that if this is more than a friendship that he has to cut it off. When I realized my friendship was heading towards more than a friendship I ceased all but business related contact with my friend. It was painful to lose the friendhsip, but it was essential if I was going to try to save my crumbling marriage.

"Are you saying that being good and expressing love to my husband will help me avoid this friednship developing into something more?"

It can't hurt, but what I think I am saying is that we can't know what effect our actions will have on others. We can only be sure of how our actions will effect us. As I treated my wife as if she was more lovable, she became more lovable to me. She may not have changed at all, but I had changed and my view of her had changed.

Communication and hard work are the keys. "Happily ever after comes after a lot of hard work.

[blondegirly]

After reading this entire thread I would say sure no problem for woman and men to friend's in a marriage if there is NO sexual attraction, or deep emotional connection.

I am coming out of a 18 month Emotional and slight P/A with a MM, I am married as well. From the start there was clear sign's that we were both very attracted to one another. Body language, eye contact the whole nine yard's. We also had so much in common a very deep emoitonal connection. Beacuse I was not happy in my marriage I continued on to try and take thing's further. All this lead to was the fact that because of our attraction and connection we can no longer be friend's unless we were both willing to leave our marriage's. So I would say minus sexual attraction and a deep emotional connection, sure why not.

[Rosey]

I am going through a similar situation. My husband starting talking to an ex-girlfriend from when they were in I think jr, high. I did meet this girl a long time ago when we first started dating. And when she realized that we were serious she never talked to him again. Well, it’s been about 15 years since then and she found him and they have been talking for a couple of weeks. At first I didn’t have a problem with it but the phone calls and the text messages increased. They are talking several times a day and text all day long. He never hid the fact that he talked to her or that they messaged back and forth all day. She is married with 2 kids and has cheated on her husband before. Her husband doesn’t know she is talking to him.

I started checking his phone for the messages. At first there was nothing because he would delete them which is not uncommon. But the other morning I noticed he didn’t delete the ones he had sent to her. What I read was shocking. To me it was more than harmless flirting. When I confronted him about the text messages he said they didn’t mean what I thought they meant. I told him there is no possible way for them to mean anything different. He then got mad that I went behind his back and checked his phone. I should’ve come to him in the first place. This may be true but I knew he wouldn’t show them to me. I told him he was being disrespectful to me but he threw it back at me saying I disrespected him. He doesn’t go through my stuff so I shouldn’t go through his.

Now to be fair, I wasn't the perfect angel myself. Years ago I used to lie to him and hide things from him. I never cheated on him but I did get mad that he was talking to other women and I started talking to other men only I didn’t tell him about it. When he found out all hell broke loose. But all that stopped along time ago and I have no intentions of being that stupid ever again. He doesn’t believe me. He thinks I’m trying to dig up dirt on him to make myself feel better.

He tells me he has no intentions of being with her or anyone else for that matter. He is with me because he wants to be with me. But he will talk to whoever he wants and say whatever he wants because he his doing nothing wrong and it’s none of my business. He says he would never act on anything.

This is tearing me up inside. He still talks to her several times a day and the messages come through even at home. Now after I confronted him last night with all this he wont even talk to me. What am I supposed to do? I love him with all my heart. But I don’t think this is right.