If woman doesn't give enough sex... ok to cheat?

[ThunderHorse]

.

I would be happy to even SNUGGLE with her (which she denied me upon request just this morning).

!

The Men's Secrets book discusses stages of arousal for a woman.

Women are more receptive when they are going to bed, and men are more arroused in the mornings, generally.

Perhaps your wife has decided to reject all your advances.

Perhaps your wife will accept a few massage caresses of her back muscles. Do you usnderstand the alluvial canal muscles on the spine?


I am not saying I guarantee a home run, I am just saying that you should be able to make some stages of progress. What time does she come to bed? What time does she fall asleep? Does she sleep in the same bedroom with you? Do you share the same bed?


Do you know how to give a foot massage? Do you understand the neck muscles, and how to give a stimulating neck massage at the base of the skull connecting muscles? Can you give her neck a few caresses, then turn back over for a few mintes, and re-approach again, iwt a few strokes?

Seduction of a wife is sometimes challenging, and time consuming. Are there other counselors to whom you can get advice on stages of seduction of your wife?




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[ThunderHorse]

Here is a short thread on Building Excitement.

More ideas and experiences should be added to this thread.


http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... .php?t=582

[ThunderHorse]

You do seem like the guru here, .

Thanks Thunderhorse, good luck in your marriage. You seem to have it handled well!

Actually, I am a student. I recite principles of marriage that I have learned in the Scott Haltzman books, and elsewhere. I do not feel like a Guru, because I am working to improve my marriage. I spend time on this forum, in an effort to have a better marriage. I have to work at marriage, because I am not naturally gifted at the skills that are important for a good marriage.

I applied my own suggestions last night, and got to first base, achieving the release of endorphins and muscle stiulant, by pressuring and releasing my wife's large muscles, and massaging the smaller muscles. Tonight, I got to secoond base.

What could you do better with your listening to venting strategies?


I made a mistake yesterday of calling my wife 10 minutes later than the ideal time to offer her some venting time. I was preoccupied in my day dreams. What are your strategies to offer your wife to vent? When do you offer?

I used to make the mistake of telling my wife there were certain subjects I did not want to hear about. What does your wife talk to the counselor about? How could you be a better listener than the counselor?

What ideas have you contradicted that your wife has suggested? How could you handle this smoother? I try to get other family members involved, and offer to listen to their ideas, when I am going to go against my wife's ideas. How do you handle differences of opinions on important decisions?

What are you doing abvout coordinating on parenting ideas and strategies?




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[matthewk]

[quote="ThunderHorse"]
The Men's Secrets book discusses stages of arousal for a woman.

Women are more receptive when they are going to bed, and men are more arroused in the mornings, generally.

Perhaps your wife has decided to reject all your advances.

Perhaps your wife will accept a few massage caresses of her back muscles. Do you usnderstand the alluvial canal muscles on the spine?


I am not saying I guarantee a home run, I am just saying that you should be able to make some stages of progress. What time does she come to bed? What time does she fall asleep? Does she sleep in the same bedroom with you? Do you share the same bed?


Do you know how to give a foot massage? Do you understand the neck muscles, and how to give a stimulating neck massage at the base of the skull connecting muscles? Can you give her neck a few caresses, then turn back over for a few mintes, and re-approach again, iwt a few strokes?

Seduction of a wife is sometimes challenging, and time consuming. Are there other counselors to whom you can get advice on stages of seduction of your wife?

//[/quote]

I like your approach, ie. that seduction is a way to break the ice. Part of me says, 'been there, done that' and my wife is the ultimate ice queen. But I'm willing to try anything. I have used massage in the past (many years hence) as a way to share, to get a massage, and hopefully to stimulate intimacy. It ended up being me massaging all the time and my wife happily receiving, then going to sleep.

My wife is exausted at bed time, not like too receptive.

I would says you are right that she has simply decided to reject all my advances and is just stringing me along for the perks (ie. $$, father to the children, cook, handyman, etc.). She hasn't initiated sh$t in years. I've forgotten the joy of a desireous wife or any female partner for that matter. This is, in a way, more torturous than divorce. If I say "UNCLE" then everyone will go, "What a fool for leaving such a PERFECT marriage!" and she will take me to the cleaners.

I'm not interested in hurting her, I'm not a vengeful person. I'm just very tired of the rejection, it's hard not to take it personally. I made a bad choice in partners, my bad. I'm too damn honorable to just walk out, plus I have children that I am responsible for and I'll eat it for them.

Maybe miracles will happen...guess I'm still a fool to believe anything I could do or be would change her behavior.

Ok, neck massage, before bed...got it.

[ThunderHorse]

I have used massage in the past (many years hence) as a way to share, to get a massage, and hopefully to stimulate intimacy. It ended up being me massaging all the time and my wife happily receiving, then going to sleep.

My wife is exausted at bed time, not like too receptive.

. I'm just very tired of the rejection,

.guess I'm still a fool to believe anything I could do or be would change her behavior.

Ok, neck massage, before bed...got it.

Perhpas work around rejections.

I get rejected, usually several times, in the sequence of my attempts to create arousal with my wife.

Before I approach my wife with a caress, or muscle squeeze, I plan to get rejected by her. I get rejected if I keep the caress going too long, too early. So I anticipate the timeing of her eventual rejection, and I break off, before I reach the point of time when she will push me awy, or say "Stop"

Maybe start building excitement in the hours before she goes to bed tired. Can ou give her pubic mound a short caress?

If your wife will accept a massage, as she is coming to bed to go to sleep, then I would say you are at first base. The question is how do you get to second base?

You do not mention releasing endorphins through gently squeezing large muscles, and releasing your squeeze, after a few seconds.

You can use oile based lubricants, such as baby oil for massages of the back and muscles. Most women do not have enough natural lubrication for the clitoris. I use three stages of water based lubes. First is a heavy consistency, that provides a smooth protective base, protecting againt abrasion of the sensitieve skin areas. Next is a medium consistency, to keep things lubed. and thridly, I use a light lube, the allows faster movements and 1/4 inch to 1/16 Inch circles.

I put the lube on my belly first, t warm up the lube, then rub my fingers on my belly, to warm up the lube, and then I put my fingers along the outer edges, working my way into the interior, more sesitive crevices.

I rarely get rejcted with my wife's feet, after getting to first base with massage of her alluvial canals by the spine. I can use the soles of her feet to put them anywhere, and I can change positions, and gain stimulation for myself.

You do not mention any improvement you can make in allowing your wife to vent. How many minutes did you give today? I missed several opportunities to offer to listen to my wife yesterday. It is imortant to have an open line of communication skills, and being ready to listent to what you don't want to hear.

You seem oreinted toward having your wife give you pleasure. You do not seem to be looking for how you can give your wife pleasure, and build her excitement, and build excitement together.

There are discussions and articles on the internet of foreplay strategies, that are probably more sphisticated than my ideas. Have you searched for an affordable sex therapist near you, whom you could visit by yourself, and get some more ideas of how to make more progress, working around your wife's rejections?

Many women are not interested in sex, until they have received several stages of arousal by a partner.

Maybe think of rejections as an opportunity for a break, allowing you to day dream fantasies for a few minutes. Also you may receive ideas of what area of your wife's muscles structure would be most receptive to your next caress.



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[ThunderHorse]

...
I would says you are right that she has simply decided to reject all my advances and is just stringing me along for the perks (ie. $$, father to the children, cook, handyman, etc.). She hasn't initiated sh$t in years. it....

I have assumed, in my previous responses, that your wife has not made a long term decision to consistently refuse your advances. I may be wrong. I thought that if she accepts a massage, then stepping up your massage techniques could lead to second base. How do you avoid pressuring nerves in deep muscle pressure?

Women, married or not, have the right to refuse love.

There are criminal laws that prected agaisnt sexual assault, which is defined in different ways in different jurisdictions.

If a wife refuses love to her husband, consistently, that may be considered constructive desrtion in some jurisdiction. Contemperaneous notes, might be important, if a court contest happened to occurr, in the future. A spouse who feels consistently rejected, might be smart to find out what courts look at.

How is family planning being implimented? Does your wife have confidence in your skills of planning pregnancies?

I Searched for a marriage counselor on rejections, and I found a lady therapist who offers counseling for "Men's Issues". It does not seem that your current counselor is focusing on your needs.

Are you doing all the little things you can easily do for your wife? Anything you are overlooking? What is the list of things your wife wants you to change? Have you asked your counselor recently, and written everything down? What is easy? What is difficult? Anything moderately difficult that seems doable?

The situation is probably more complex than I am grasping.

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[matthewk]

Yes, it is more complex but you have thrown out some good insight.

To be very honest, I've hurt my wife by having two cyber affairs the past 15 or so years. So our issue is trust -- I'm sure she is a low desire woman as well (she has zero interest in anything sexual).

You make a very good point when you say my focus is on my pleasure. Perhaps. But her pleasure IS my pleasure. Her being turned on is the BIGGEST turn on for me.

I would have to conclude that perhaps she has made up her mind not to even be open to intimacy with me. At least that's what her actions say. And me, so beaten up by continual rejection don't have the confidence to continue fruitlessly. Isn't that the definition of insanity, trying something over and over and expecting a different result.

I think the only POSSIBLE solution (if there is one) with this marriage is to be VERY patient and to purely focus on restoring trust and on HER needs. Beyond that, there is the issue of my fear of letting her know how I really feel, all torn up inside but still in love and desirous of her. Whenever I do that, she says "that's your problem, not mine". Pretty ugly yes.

And yet, I always have hope. I love Scott's model of men and their work ethic, I am a HARD worker. A fool maybe, but a HARD worker and my wife is my best friend and the object of my desire. I know other WOMEN could satisfy my sexual and intimacy needs, but what I really want is that full relationship with my wife. So I will try until she says leave.

I love the massage angle, if there is a spark of desire in her, I think that would find it. Night time, yes. I have to admit that I've tried stroking the back of her neck or her back, usually she quickly says "stop that". So you see what I'm up against. She used to love foot and hand massages too...

I wish you well.

Matthewk

[howcanihelp]

The issue you are having is the lack of sex in your marriage, correct? Have you considered how your wife may feel about sex? Is the only reason you are helping around the house and listening to your wife because you only want sex? The answer to your situation is no to cheating. Cheating will only create chaos in your life.
In Dr. Scott Haltzman's Secrets of Happily Married men , Haltzman writes "Most people assume that if there is conflict in a marriage, there must be something wrong. The reality is, conflict is part of marriage. " He also writes " Sex is not the overriding factor in either marital happiness or marital distress. " The blunt of it is, communication being the key.
You maybe feel as though you have to cheat on your wife but you should know what she is feeling before you decide to do anything. Don't think that your marriage is over and end with a girlfriend or mistress on the side. Conflict will always be there you need to learn how to work things out.
If you feel as though you are not in love with your wife anymore then you need to consider divorce. If you love you wife and only see this as a bump in the road then you need to seek marriage counseling. Cheating is never the answer to solve any relationship conflicts. And always remember why you fell in love to begin with.