Hi everyone, I'm new here and I wanted to share my story with you. For those of you struggling to deal with infidelity. Its a complicated story and a long one, I'll try to keep it concise.
Somewhere approaching my 42nd birthday and in my 19th year of marriage I decided that I wanted to deepen my relationship with my husband. somewhere in my mind I saw myself aging, hurtling towards middle age and I took a good look at my life and realised I was stuck in this place for what seems like forever.
I've been a housewife since the birth of my second daughter 18 years ago. Its meant a lot of sacrifice and I began to feel, almost right away, that I could not be attractive to my husband in the way I was before. First of all, I need to explain that we met at work and I quit the department after we became engaged but continued to work in the same company. So, basically our relationship was born in a working environment and we still rode to work together each day, saw each other on lunch breaks etc. After about a year of being at home I started feeling that intellectually and physically (I'd put on some weight with the babies) I wasn't going to measure up.
There's a whole lot more to that, but anyway, back to my story.. I decided to try to create my own "Escape" situation.. you know the Pina Colada song by Rupert Holmes? If you don't check for it on youtube and you'll get where I'm coming from. I decided to write my husband as a secret admirer. Up to this day I don't know where the thought came from, but I went through with it. I was actually stunned when he replied and at first the conversations were really kinda formal and general. I asked him lots of things about his family, I was always turning him towards me and the children.
I used my alter-ego to tell him all the things that I wanted from him, by saying things like "I bet your wife loves ... " or "you sound so romantic, your wife is a lucky woman" etc. I also wanted to use this "other personality", to let loose the passionate woman that exists inside me, that I'd repressed for so many years to be this role model wife and mother. I basically allowed my children to consume me when I felt that my husband was neglecting me. I didn't have an affair like other people, I just made the best of it and poured all my attention onto them.
Before long I'd been telling him how much I admired him, that I thought he was sexy etc. I lost myself in this.. it was like having an affair. I couldn't wait to get emails from him., it was exciting and I felt so alive. I never realised what dangerous ground I was walking on... while I knew i was talking to my husband, he didn't know it was me. Technically, he was getting intimate with another woman.
Each day as things progressed (we were never graphic or sexual, just intimate details started pouring out of him.. things he never even told me) I had this bittersweet addiction to it. I cried like a baby when I read some of the things he said, knowing that he'd never told them to me, yet I was elated because it was to the inside me, the real me he was revealing himself.
I fully intended to tell him it was me, I even had an email set up in my drafts folder to him cause I was sure he would crack my password, he was almost desperate to find out who I was. In there I explained to him that it was me and why I'd done it. That my primary goal was to make him fall in love with me again.
One day, I realised that he seemed to be falling in love or at the very least becoming attached to "me" and wanted more so with an aching heart I told him that I thought we should stop talking to each other because we were both committing emotional adultery.
He seemed devastated and said I was probably right and that he wished there was a way we could still talk to each other but we probably couldn't keep the intimacy out of it, so maybe we couldn't. He said he would miss me and my heart broke that day. I printed out the letter intending to tell him that evening when he came home.
Unfortunately, the back page with my signature fell out and before I could tell him, he found it. It was definitely not the way I wanted him to find out. As you can imagine, all hell broke loose in my house that night. He accused me of setting out to trap him, he refused to listen to me and I thought my life was over. Not only did he find out the wrong way and thought the worst of me, but I also had to live with all the questions our secret relationship had revealed. WE slept in separate rooms for 3 days and for 3 days he didn't speak to me He knew he couldn't hide anything from me now because I was the one he had confided in. He was like a caged animal, cornered, lashing out. I received so many mortal wounds to my heart. I didn't think we would ever recover from it. More to come
teh long road to recovery
13 posts
• Page 1 of 1
teh long road to recovery
by bakergirltt » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:55 pm
- bakergirltt
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:20 am
Where to start?
by Scott Haltzman » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:36 pm
Baker Girl,
I really don't know where to start in a response to this story. It's absolutely fascinating, and fraught with all kinds of lessons. The positive is that you found out all kinds of things about your husband you didn't know. You also found all kinds of sensitivities. The negatives...well, yeah, they're kind of obvious.
So, what happens next?
I really don't know where to start in a response to this story. It's absolutely fascinating, and fraught with all kinds of lessons. The positive is that you found out all kinds of things about your husband you didn't know. You also found all kinds of sensitivities. The negatives...well, yeah, they're kind of obvious.
So, what happens next?
- Scott Haltzman
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:30 pm
- Location: Barrington, RI
by bakergirltt » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:56 pm
Hello Dr Haltzman
Thank you for being interested in my story. I hope, at the very least, it helps someone else. I know I left you with a cliffhanger, forgive me, not only is it long, but I am a writer at heart and I guess this may be the most important story I ever write.
Let me continue:
I had written to him as my alter-ego, ostensibly to say goodbye as that person. I told him I'd miss writing to him alot, that I cared about him and that I was hurting both as his cyber friend and as his wife. He had said, to my devastation, that he missed relationships with other women, he missed having friends. I knew that part of his pain was that he'd discovered there WAS no other woman who cared about him, admired him and cherished his friendship. There was only me.
His reply was so full of self-deprecation. He made statements about how he didn't care about anything except how he'd hurt the woman he loved etc. and other things that I considered to be a play for my sympathy. It was an old ploy of his, one that I'd always given in to. This time, I was hurt, angry and I'd come this far as this new woman, a woman who would not settle for less than she deserved, a woman who would not back down or give in, a woman who would demand respect.
All I'd wanted was for him to see me as a woman again, a woman with passion, who deserved respect and to be listened to. In the past, I could never challenge what he said or have a strong opinion on anything without causing a fight. As my alter-ego I'd had many conversations with him where I'd challenged his thinking, judgment. He'd actually respected my points of view. It had hurt because I'm his wife and I deserved that from him and he was giving it to some woman he didn't know and had never seen.
I replied to his pitiful response with an email of my own where I didn't spare him a tongue lashing. I told him he didn't begin to know what he'd destroyed. I told him that if he had truly loved his wife he wouldn't do things that he knew would hurt her just because she may never find out. (Especially since in our conversations on the internet I'd told him things like that. I'd ask him how he thought his wife would feel if she knew about the things we'd talked about.) I questioned what he knew of love because love just didn't do that. Naturally, it didn't help our situation and caused an even greater wedge between us.
By the third day I could stand no more and went to him and told him that I loved him and I couldn't stand the separation. I asked him to forgive me for deceiving him and I gave him the letter I'd written to read. I wonder if there is any other man alive who can stonewall as good as my husband. When his walls go up they are virtually impenetrable, I bruise myself against them trying to get through to him. I am, however, tenacious when it comes to our relationship and I wouldn't give up.
We made up and I swore to him I hadn't done it to trap him but I guess, because of the way things ended up, that is exactly what it would seem. I told him I had gotten carried away with the excitement and power of talking with him the way we had talked. Never in our 19 years of marriage had we communicated that way. Never had he told me the things he told my alter-ego. Things about me and our marriage and what he wanted. I felt like I had never known him.
As the dust settled and the relief that he was not going to hold on to his anger and keep shutting me out faded, quick on its heels came the questions. I started asking him about the stuff he'd hinted at with me. I was so scared of what would come out.
Let me just back up a little and say that 5 years ago I had found a Valentine poem he'd written to a woman in his company. I had been devastated and so shocked and traumatised that I had to take a double dose of some nerve medication I was on to calm down. When I confronted him he broke down and said it hadn't meant anything and that he'd never even known the woman or what she looked like but she had sent one to him so he replied. He swore he'd never had any affairs.
Let me clarify that for years I'd begged him to do stuff like that for me. It was usually me that did the romantic things for him. We once went on a weekend for couples which was meant to improve marital relations. One of the exercises was to write to each other once a week or something like that. He always made excuses and never wrote so I just gave up. To have him do this for another woman was really painful, but worse, the lines he used were the same ones he'd told me when we were courting. You cannot imagine what that did to me. Back then, just like always, I couldn't stand to be at odds with him, so I chose to forgive and forget, to believe what he'd said. I think, though, that something inside me suffered a serious blow that day. I had worked hard to overcome a problem with trust (because of disappointments in people I trusted and looked up to as a young girl) and I wonder now if the trust I'd built up cracked just a little.
When all this happened, it brought that right back to me like a slap in the face. I was still hurting from the knowledge that he'd told a stranger things about me and our marriage that he'd never told me or tried to rectify. I felt like I was in some alternate reality. I questioned how I could have been so naive. I felt like I'd been living some kind of lie all these years and I questioned whether he'd ever really loved me and whether all those warm feelings I'd felt between us were real. I questioned how I had never known that things were that wrong. Of course, later on I learnt that he'd never told me, he'd never tried to make things better, he "compromised" as he told my alter-ego.. a word I grew to hate. I didn't want him to "compromise" I wanted to know what was wrong and work with him to make it better.
So I started questioning him about the things we'd talked about on the internet. What he revealed was painful but confusing. Things didn't add up and didn't make sense so I kept prodding and questioning and digging. That caused many fights. He would become so angry and, like I said, he was backed against a wall and he lashed out. He used anger as an intimidation tactic. I was always reduced to a heap of crying flesh on the floor.
There's a lot more to say and this post is incredibly long, so I apologise for another cliffhanger... the writer in me loves it though
... more soon
Thank you for being interested in my story. I hope, at the very least, it helps someone else. I know I left you with a cliffhanger, forgive me, not only is it long, but I am a writer at heart and I guess this may be the most important story I ever write.
Let me continue:
I had written to him as my alter-ego, ostensibly to say goodbye as that person. I told him I'd miss writing to him alot, that I cared about him and that I was hurting both as his cyber friend and as his wife. He had said, to my devastation, that he missed relationships with other women, he missed having friends. I knew that part of his pain was that he'd discovered there WAS no other woman who cared about him, admired him and cherished his friendship. There was only me.
His reply was so full of self-deprecation. He made statements about how he didn't care about anything except how he'd hurt the woman he loved etc. and other things that I considered to be a play for my sympathy. It was an old ploy of his, one that I'd always given in to. This time, I was hurt, angry and I'd come this far as this new woman, a woman who would not settle for less than she deserved, a woman who would not back down or give in, a woman who would demand respect.
All I'd wanted was for him to see me as a woman again, a woman with passion, who deserved respect and to be listened to. In the past, I could never challenge what he said or have a strong opinion on anything without causing a fight. As my alter-ego I'd had many conversations with him where I'd challenged his thinking, judgment. He'd actually respected my points of view. It had hurt because I'm his wife and I deserved that from him and he was giving it to some woman he didn't know and had never seen.
I replied to his pitiful response with an email of my own where I didn't spare him a tongue lashing. I told him he didn't begin to know what he'd destroyed. I told him that if he had truly loved his wife he wouldn't do things that he knew would hurt her just because she may never find out. (Especially since in our conversations on the internet I'd told him things like that. I'd ask him how he thought his wife would feel if she knew about the things we'd talked about.) I questioned what he knew of love because love just didn't do that. Naturally, it didn't help our situation and caused an even greater wedge between us.
By the third day I could stand no more and went to him and told him that I loved him and I couldn't stand the separation. I asked him to forgive me for deceiving him and I gave him the letter I'd written to read. I wonder if there is any other man alive who can stonewall as good as my husband. When his walls go up they are virtually impenetrable, I bruise myself against them trying to get through to him. I am, however, tenacious when it comes to our relationship and I wouldn't give up.
We made up and I swore to him I hadn't done it to trap him but I guess, because of the way things ended up, that is exactly what it would seem. I told him I had gotten carried away with the excitement and power of talking with him the way we had talked. Never in our 19 years of marriage had we communicated that way. Never had he told me the things he told my alter-ego. Things about me and our marriage and what he wanted. I felt like I had never known him.
As the dust settled and the relief that he was not going to hold on to his anger and keep shutting me out faded, quick on its heels came the questions. I started asking him about the stuff he'd hinted at with me. I was so scared of what would come out.
Let me just back up a little and say that 5 years ago I had found a Valentine poem he'd written to a woman in his company. I had been devastated and so shocked and traumatised that I had to take a double dose of some nerve medication I was on to calm down. When I confronted him he broke down and said it hadn't meant anything and that he'd never even known the woman or what she looked like but she had sent one to him so he replied. He swore he'd never had any affairs.
Let me clarify that for years I'd begged him to do stuff like that for me. It was usually me that did the romantic things for him. We once went on a weekend for couples which was meant to improve marital relations. One of the exercises was to write to each other once a week or something like that. He always made excuses and never wrote so I just gave up. To have him do this for another woman was really painful, but worse, the lines he used were the same ones he'd told me when we were courting. You cannot imagine what that did to me. Back then, just like always, I couldn't stand to be at odds with him, so I chose to forgive and forget, to believe what he'd said. I think, though, that something inside me suffered a serious blow that day. I had worked hard to overcome a problem with trust (because of disappointments in people I trusted and looked up to as a young girl) and I wonder now if the trust I'd built up cracked just a little.
When all this happened, it brought that right back to me like a slap in the face. I was still hurting from the knowledge that he'd told a stranger things about me and our marriage that he'd never told me or tried to rectify. I felt like I was in some alternate reality. I questioned how I could have been so naive. I felt like I'd been living some kind of lie all these years and I questioned whether he'd ever really loved me and whether all those warm feelings I'd felt between us were real. I questioned how I had never known that things were that wrong. Of course, later on I learnt that he'd never told me, he'd never tried to make things better, he "compromised" as he told my alter-ego.. a word I grew to hate. I didn't want him to "compromise" I wanted to know what was wrong and work with him to make it better.
So I started questioning him about the things we'd talked about on the internet. What he revealed was painful but confusing. Things didn't add up and didn't make sense so I kept prodding and questioning and digging. That caused many fights. He would become so angry and, like I said, he was backed against a wall and he lashed out. He used anger as an intimidation tactic. I was always reduced to a heap of crying flesh on the floor.
There's a lot more to say and this post is incredibly long, so I apologise for another cliffhanger... the writer in me loves it though
... more soon- bakergirltt
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:20 am
by ThunderHorse » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:55 am
The stages of fighting you describe with your husband are discussed in the Secrets of Happily Married Women book. Withdrawing, attacking verbally criticiazing.
The secret is to move through those stages, and get to the making-up part of the fight process. Finding ways to put an argument aside, is a challenge for both a husband and a wife, and takes cooperation of both.
///
The secret is to move through those stages, and get to the making-up part of the fight process. Finding ways to put an argument aside, is a challenge for both a husband and a wife, and takes cooperation of both.
///
- ThunderHorse
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm
by bakergirltt » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:25 am
Let me apologise for the length of this story. I'm not even sure if I should be giving so many details, but, for those still caught up in the gut-wrenching pain, fear and doubt, I wanted you to see that there is hope at the end of the madness, that you can recover and that you shouldn't give up trying. I want you to see that I've been there too and I've survived and I hope that my story encourages you to keep climbing.
I badgered my husband about his answers which didn't add up, the dots didn't connect and I kept at it until I got what, I hope, was the truth.
Well, what finally came out was a mangled story of infidelity, which was made even more complex by the fact that it had taken place 11 years before. I felt like I was caught in some kind of black hole that was threatening to suck me in. For me, it was fresh and new and for him it was old news that he didn't want to get into. I needed answers, he wanted to leave it in the past where it belongs. It was the cause of a lot of arguments and I was riding a roller coaster of pain, confusion and anger.
I was angry that he'd lied to me when I'd first asked him to tell me what had happened, not once but over and over. If I hadn't been adamant that his story wasn't sounding right, he would never have told me more. I was confused because I knew that he wasn't the same person he'd been then, but yet doubtful because he HAD engaged in an internet romance, albeit with me. I felt like I'd never known him, that my marriage was a lie. I never believed he'd be capable of the things he did. Mind you, he claims to not have actually slept with her. I'm still struggling not to doubt that. He'd had a problem with maintaining an erection and he'd lost interest in even trying. (We found out later that his health issues were a contributing factor in that, plus his lack of confidence) so when he told me that the only time he tried (on a business trip) he couldn't get it up, I believed that it was possibly true. He claims to have ended it that same day. I know his pride would have made him walk away because he wouldn't have wanted to deal with his failure, plus he says he was "awakened" at that moment to the fire he was playing with and to all that he could have lost.
He did have phone sex and heavy petting sessions at the office. He claims to not ever have met her outside of work. He claims that it lasted less than a year and we still have issues we haven't really discussed in detail, but I plan on raising. He has admitted to her giving him oral sex and him touching her intimately, though he first denied all of those things.
I cannot begin to explain the pain, the fear, the doubt. His actions seemed to confirm all the old fears I'd had of not being attractive to him. I grieved, really grieved for all those years, all those nights when I wanted him and he wouldn't even come to bed. I agonized over the images of him with another woman. I became obsessed with wanting to know more about her. I wondered what kind of man my husband was that he could do those things with another married woman. What kind of person she was... she had children! I called her all the dirty names you could think of. I grieved that he did things with her he'd never done with me. I imagined him doing everything he and she had talked about on the phone. I was in a terrible place, yet I loved him and needed him. It was like being jerked on the end of a yo-yo.
I know, from reading of other people's experiences, that this is all natural and yet I felt like I was being unfair for holding something that happened so long ago against him. It was surreal. He didn't handle my emotions well. He kept saying he'd leave if I couldn't handle it. I felt even more hurt and angry that he could cop out like that. We'd have these arguments and he'd pull out a suitcase and start throwing stuff in it. I'd stand in front of the door, refusing to move. I got black and blue marks from him trying to lift me out of the way. When I tell you I fought for my marriage.. I wasn't kidding! Later on, I'd wonder if I should have just let him leave and come to his senses, but at the moment all I could see was that his actions were telling me that he didn't care enough about our marriage to fight for it, to face everything. Of course, it was facing my pain that was the hardest thing for him to do. To face his shame and guilt, which I realised he had in abundance, was the next worst thing.
I want to interject here that porn played a big part in his sex education. It caused us many arguments and it added to my feeling of being inadequate/unattractive and unwanted. I believe that he had an addiction to porn and he acted out his fantasies with this woman. I know that people don't think anything is wrong with porn, but it is a form of cheating in my opinion, especially if its taking away from your relationship. As a Christian, I believe its is also wrong... so you can see what conflict that caused for us. Every time I would find something he had looked at I would go crazy. I even destroyed some of the tapes he'd rented. I guess he got involved with her because he felt that he couldn't share that with me and she was pushing for it. He also claims it was his ego, that she paid him attention when I wasn't. Looong story and a familiar one to a lot of you I'm sure.
Ironically, even though I don't like porn, I do have a passionate nature and I was willing to do anything for him within reason. I often joke now that the roles have always been reversed in our marriage. I could have sex anytime but he was the one pleading the headaches! He even says he doesn't know how we ended up with 4 children when we didn't exactly have a roaring sex life.. thankfully that has been rectified
In fact, when this happened, I believe I was pregnant with our third child and, after doing all the reading I've done, I realise now that was the vulnerable time. I want to let you all know, that the pain doesn't exactly go away just because you've chosen to love and forgive your spouse and as I sit here writing this I feel it consuming me. Its not easy to look back at your life and see the family vacation photos and know that all that time he was with someone else. Its not easy to look at old cards from him and wonder if he really meant what he'd written there. I actually tore a few of them up when I was in the throes of my misery one day.
Its especially not easy to believe that he couldn't possibly have loved me back then and do the things he did. I have done a whole lot of grieving for our past and all that I lost out on. I yearned for so much more for us and chose to settle for what we had. I gave my all and continued to do so, every now and then trying to raise the bar a little and backing off when it wasn't reciprocated. Even today I have moments when I feel like.. you never wanted these things with me... you rejected my attempts to deepen our relationship, now you want it all? You now want to be the romantic husband I wanted? You now want to take me on dates and share cute little verses and love songs with me? What if I tell you its too late! I fight the desire to withhold and to feel resentment. I recognise that I'm human and I can feel it but I'm not going to act on it. I have made the conscious choice to love and forgive. I do want you to know that it isn't easy and its a work in progress... if you have been feeling this too, don't give in to it. You can fight it.
I will say, a the risk of offending anyone, that I couldn't have done this without God. God was my back up, the person I turned to when I needed comfort, counsel and strength. I felt it would be disloyal to my husband to tell any member of our family about our issues. I'm happy today that I stuck to that plan. Can you imagine how they would judge him? I know they would all be disappointed because nobody thinks he is capable of being anything but the man he's projected to us all these years. I spoke to a priest (not one from my parish because he's been really involved at our church these last couple of years) and I got some support from a prayer partner. That and frequent visits to church is what saw me this far.
I would strongly urge anyone in this position to try hard not to let any family member know about your spouse's betrayal, not if you intend to forgive them. Find someone else to talk to, whom you can trust , preferably someone who doesn't know your family intimately. I know of a couple whose marriage is still very fragile after an affair about 8 years ago. The wife chose to let the whole family know. He was mistreated by her family and the tensions are still there, not as bad but, what can you expect? This is their daughter/sister and you've hurt her badly. For the rest of his life they will look at him differently. She chose to try and make her marriage work, but it will always be undermined by the negative feelings and comments of her family.
Well, there's more to say, but I've run out of time, this time. Hope somebody out there is benefiting from this.. Till next time
I badgered my husband about his answers which didn't add up, the dots didn't connect and I kept at it until I got what, I hope, was the truth.
Well, what finally came out was a mangled story of infidelity, which was made even more complex by the fact that it had taken place 11 years before. I felt like I was caught in some kind of black hole that was threatening to suck me in. For me, it was fresh and new and for him it was old news that he didn't want to get into. I needed answers, he wanted to leave it in the past where it belongs. It was the cause of a lot of arguments and I was riding a roller coaster of pain, confusion and anger.
I was angry that he'd lied to me when I'd first asked him to tell me what had happened, not once but over and over. If I hadn't been adamant that his story wasn't sounding right, he would never have told me more. I was confused because I knew that he wasn't the same person he'd been then, but yet doubtful because he HAD engaged in an internet romance, albeit with me. I felt like I'd never known him, that my marriage was a lie. I never believed he'd be capable of the things he did. Mind you, he claims to not have actually slept with her. I'm still struggling not to doubt that. He'd had a problem with maintaining an erection and he'd lost interest in even trying. (We found out later that his health issues were a contributing factor in that, plus his lack of confidence) so when he told me that the only time he tried (on a business trip) he couldn't get it up, I believed that it was possibly true. He claims to have ended it that same day. I know his pride would have made him walk away because he wouldn't have wanted to deal with his failure, plus he says he was "awakened" at that moment to the fire he was playing with and to all that he could have lost.
He did have phone sex and heavy petting sessions at the office. He claims to not ever have met her outside of work. He claims that it lasted less than a year and we still have issues we haven't really discussed in detail, but I plan on raising. He has admitted to her giving him oral sex and him touching her intimately, though he first denied all of those things.
I cannot begin to explain the pain, the fear, the doubt. His actions seemed to confirm all the old fears I'd had of not being attractive to him. I grieved, really grieved for all those years, all those nights when I wanted him and he wouldn't even come to bed. I agonized over the images of him with another woman. I became obsessed with wanting to know more about her. I wondered what kind of man my husband was that he could do those things with another married woman. What kind of person she was... she had children! I called her all the dirty names you could think of. I grieved that he did things with her he'd never done with me. I imagined him doing everything he and she had talked about on the phone. I was in a terrible place, yet I loved him and needed him. It was like being jerked on the end of a yo-yo.
I know, from reading of other people's experiences, that this is all natural and yet I felt like I was being unfair for holding something that happened so long ago against him. It was surreal. He didn't handle my emotions well. He kept saying he'd leave if I couldn't handle it. I felt even more hurt and angry that he could cop out like that. We'd have these arguments and he'd pull out a suitcase and start throwing stuff in it. I'd stand in front of the door, refusing to move. I got black and blue marks from him trying to lift me out of the way. When I tell you I fought for my marriage.. I wasn't kidding! Later on, I'd wonder if I should have just let him leave and come to his senses, but at the moment all I could see was that his actions were telling me that he didn't care enough about our marriage to fight for it, to face everything. Of course, it was facing my pain that was the hardest thing for him to do. To face his shame and guilt, which I realised he had in abundance, was the next worst thing.
I want to interject here that porn played a big part in his sex education. It caused us many arguments and it added to my feeling of being inadequate/unattractive and unwanted. I believe that he had an addiction to porn and he acted out his fantasies with this woman. I know that people don't think anything is wrong with porn, but it is a form of cheating in my opinion, especially if its taking away from your relationship. As a Christian, I believe its is also wrong... so you can see what conflict that caused for us. Every time I would find something he had looked at I would go crazy. I even destroyed some of the tapes he'd rented. I guess he got involved with her because he felt that he couldn't share that with me and she was pushing for it. He also claims it was his ego, that she paid him attention when I wasn't. Looong story and a familiar one to a lot of you I'm sure.
Ironically, even though I don't like porn, I do have a passionate nature and I was willing to do anything for him within reason. I often joke now that the roles have always been reversed in our marriage. I could have sex anytime but he was the one pleading the headaches! He even says he doesn't know how we ended up with 4 children when we didn't exactly have a roaring sex life.. thankfully that has been rectified
In fact, when this happened, I believe I was pregnant with our third child and, after doing all the reading I've done, I realise now that was the vulnerable time. I want to let you all know, that the pain doesn't exactly go away just because you've chosen to love and forgive your spouse and as I sit here writing this I feel it consuming me. Its not easy to look back at your life and see the family vacation photos and know that all that time he was with someone else. Its not easy to look at old cards from him and wonder if he really meant what he'd written there. I actually tore a few of them up when I was in the throes of my misery one day.
Its especially not easy to believe that he couldn't possibly have loved me back then and do the things he did. I have done a whole lot of grieving for our past and all that I lost out on. I yearned for so much more for us and chose to settle for what we had. I gave my all and continued to do so, every now and then trying to raise the bar a little and backing off when it wasn't reciprocated. Even today I have moments when I feel like.. you never wanted these things with me... you rejected my attempts to deepen our relationship, now you want it all? You now want to be the romantic husband I wanted? You now want to take me on dates and share cute little verses and love songs with me? What if I tell you its too late! I fight the desire to withhold and to feel resentment. I recognise that I'm human and I can feel it but I'm not going to act on it. I have made the conscious choice to love and forgive. I do want you to know that it isn't easy and its a work in progress... if you have been feeling this too, don't give in to it. You can fight it.
I will say, a the risk of offending anyone, that I couldn't have done this without God. God was my back up, the person I turned to when I needed comfort, counsel and strength. I felt it would be disloyal to my husband to tell any member of our family about our issues. I'm happy today that I stuck to that plan. Can you imagine how they would judge him? I know they would all be disappointed because nobody thinks he is capable of being anything but the man he's projected to us all these years. I spoke to a priest (not one from my parish because he's been really involved at our church these last couple of years) and I got some support from a prayer partner. That and frequent visits to church is what saw me this far.
I would strongly urge anyone in this position to try hard not to let any family member know about your spouse's betrayal, not if you intend to forgive them. Find someone else to talk to, whom you can trust , preferably someone who doesn't know your family intimately. I know of a couple whose marriage is still very fragile after an affair about 8 years ago. The wife chose to let the whole family know. He was mistreated by her family and the tensions are still there, not as bad but, what can you expect? This is their daughter/sister and you've hurt her badly. For the rest of his life they will look at him differently. She chose to try and make her marriage work, but it will always be undermined by the negative feelings and comments of her family.
Well, there's more to say, but I've run out of time, this time. Hope somebody out there is benefiting from this.. Till next time
- bakergirltt
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:20 am
by ThunderHorse » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:55 am
bakergirltt wrote:. I needed answers, he wanted to leave it in the past where it belongs. It was the cause of a lot of arguments and I was riding a roller coaster of pain, confusion and anger.
. He'd had a problem with maintaining an erection and he'd lost interest in even trying.
He also claims it was his ego, that she paid him attention when I wasn't. Looong story and a familiar one to a lot of you I'm sure.
I want to interject here that porn played a big part in his sex education. It caused us many arguments and it added to my feeling of being inadequate/unattractive and unwanted. I believe that he had an addiction to porn and he acted out his fantasies with this woman. I know that people don't think anything is wrong with porn, but it is a form of cheating in my opinion, especially if its taking away from your relationship. As a Christian, I believe its is also wrong... so you can see what conflict that caused for us. Every time I would find something he had looked at I would go crazy. I even destroyed some of the tapes he'd rented. I guess he got involved with her because he felt that he couldn't share that with me and she was pushing for it. He also claims it was his ego, that she paid him attention when I wasn't. Looong story and a familiar one to a lot of you I'm sure.
Ironically, even though I don't like porn, I do have a passionate nature and I was willing to do anything for him within reason. I often joke now that the roles have always been reversed in our marriage. I could have sex anytime but he was the one pleading the headaches! He even says he doesn't know how we ended up with 4 children when we didn't exactly have a roaring sex life.. thankfully that has been rectified
Many women give themselves permission to crticize their husband's propensity for the enjoyment of porn. Has there been an evolution of your expression of criticism of your husband about his enjoyment of porn?
Did your earlier criticism of porn lead to your husband seeking to enjoy porn outside of the marital bedroom? What advice do you have for women who might be tempted to express criticsm of their husbands about their enjoyment of porn inside the marital bedroom?
//
- ThunderHorse
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm
by bakergirltt » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:17 am
Thunderhorse, thank you for your comment. Certainly, all our fighting would be easily resolved if we could only put aside our emotions and apply a little brain power. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen.
Just recently we had a fight which didn't get resolved until the next day because we were both stuck in the same cycle. He stonewalling and me withdrawing.. after trying to resolve it. I try to resolve and reach out for love and reassurance and he wants to be alone and holds on to his anger and feelings of hurt pride. The end result is always the same, he ends up feeling badgered and I end up feeling more hurt. I believe in Dr Scott's principle of not going to bed angry. I CANNOT sleep when there are issues between us. He, on the other hand, does. He maintains his icy stone wall between us and goes to sleep. It seriously pisses me off! After this last argument, I begged him to promise me we'll not go to bed angry anymore... we'll see what happens.
He has an overabundance of pride and my emotions always get the better of me in a fight. We are both guilty of not communicating properly. For instance, if I say "It hurts that you never comforted me when I was feeling ill", he hears, "You did something wrong again... you'll never get it right and you can't make me happy" When that happens, there is no getting through to him, his pride takes over and no matter what I say after that , he's not listening anymore. He's stuck in his own mind, listening to his own voice. Does that sound familiar to anyone?
If, however, I can step back a bit and find a better way to word things our argument just dissolves. Here's an example..
Recently, my daughter was in a christmas play and my husband had an office function at the same time. He told me he would leave at a specific time and we would go together. When the appointed time came, he had never called me and I left without him. I tried to control the anger, hurt and disappointment and I tried to rationalise his behaviour, that maybe he couldn't get a moment to use his phone or something, but try as I might, my emotions tapped into the old feelings of not being important to him, of my needs or feelings being trampled on. An hour later he called and didn't even bring up the subject until I asked with a curt "So why didn't you call me?" He responded with a cold "Sorry" and when we were both at home later on we were cool towards each other and he maintained an icy silence until, as usual, I broke it.
I told him that I knew the function was important but he could at least have called me. I considered that his lack of true remorse was a lack of courtesy and respect to me and his attitude was the old "wrong and strong one". His old defense mechanisms were in place and I knew I wasn't getting through to him.
We argued back and forth until I had a flash of insight. He was hearing that I was accusing him of putting his job before us and he was tapping into his anger because of the guilty feelings for the times when he didn't think about putting us first in other things. I took a deep breath and swallowed my own self-righteousness and said "Honey I'm not trying to say that your job is more important to you than us. I'm just saying that I know it was important for you to be there and I know you couldn't be in two places at once but I'm upset that you didn't at least call me. I waited for a while and then left."
You could literally see the wall he'd put between us shatter, his whole demeanor relaxed and he said that nothing was more important to him than us and he was really upset that he'd missed the play and that I was right, he should have called me. That was the end of the argument.
Our ways of dealing with conflict are so different, to start with. I like to resolve, he wants to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened. The old me would just give up and go with the flow, but the new me insists on resolving things before they begin to fester and cause us more problems later on... which is what was happening all these years.
Of course that causes us many more arguments than we had in the past but, oh what a joy it is to make up!
This is another long post but I'm going to close with a thought.. Recently a British couple celebrated their 81st anniversary - the longest married couple alive! When asked the secret to their long, happy marriage one of their replies was that they had fought often (I read between the lines that they also made up even more often!). You can read about them at this link:
//www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1187810/Britains-longest-married-couple-celebrate-81st-anniversary.html
Ah.. the joys of make up sex
Just recently we had a fight which didn't get resolved until the next day because we were both stuck in the same cycle. He stonewalling and me withdrawing.. after trying to resolve it. I try to resolve and reach out for love and reassurance and he wants to be alone and holds on to his anger and feelings of hurt pride. The end result is always the same, he ends up feeling badgered and I end up feeling more hurt. I believe in Dr Scott's principle of not going to bed angry. I CANNOT sleep when there are issues between us. He, on the other hand, does. He maintains his icy stone wall between us and goes to sleep. It seriously pisses me off! After this last argument, I begged him to promise me we'll not go to bed angry anymore... we'll see what happens.
He has an overabundance of pride and my emotions always get the better of me in a fight. We are both guilty of not communicating properly. For instance, if I say "It hurts that you never comforted me when I was feeling ill", he hears, "You did something wrong again... you'll never get it right and you can't make me happy" When that happens, there is no getting through to him, his pride takes over and no matter what I say after that , he's not listening anymore. He's stuck in his own mind, listening to his own voice. Does that sound familiar to anyone?
If, however, I can step back a bit and find a better way to word things our argument just dissolves. Here's an example..
Recently, my daughter was in a christmas play and my husband had an office function at the same time. He told me he would leave at a specific time and we would go together. When the appointed time came, he had never called me and I left without him. I tried to control the anger, hurt and disappointment and I tried to rationalise his behaviour, that maybe he couldn't get a moment to use his phone or something, but try as I might, my emotions tapped into the old feelings of not being important to him, of my needs or feelings being trampled on. An hour later he called and didn't even bring up the subject until I asked with a curt "So why didn't you call me?" He responded with a cold "Sorry" and when we were both at home later on we were cool towards each other and he maintained an icy silence until, as usual, I broke it.
I told him that I knew the function was important but he could at least have called me. I considered that his lack of true remorse was a lack of courtesy and respect to me and his attitude was the old "wrong and strong one". His old defense mechanisms were in place and I knew I wasn't getting through to him.
We argued back and forth until I had a flash of insight. He was hearing that I was accusing him of putting his job before us and he was tapping into his anger because of the guilty feelings for the times when he didn't think about putting us first in other things. I took a deep breath and swallowed my own self-righteousness and said "Honey I'm not trying to say that your job is more important to you than us. I'm just saying that I know it was important for you to be there and I know you couldn't be in two places at once but I'm upset that you didn't at least call me. I waited for a while and then left."
You could literally see the wall he'd put between us shatter, his whole demeanor relaxed and he said that nothing was more important to him than us and he was really upset that he'd missed the play and that I was right, he should have called me. That was the end of the argument.
Our ways of dealing with conflict are so different, to start with. I like to resolve, he wants to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened. The old me would just give up and go with the flow, but the new me insists on resolving things before they begin to fester and cause us more problems later on... which is what was happening all these years.
Of course that causes us many more arguments than we had in the past but, oh what a joy it is to make up!
This is another long post but I'm going to close with a thought.. Recently a British couple celebrated their 81st anniversary - the longest married couple alive! When asked the secret to their long, happy marriage one of their replies was that they had fought often (I read between the lines that they also made up even more often!). You can read about them at this link:
//www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1187810/Britains-longest-married-couple-celebrate-81st-anniversary.html
Ah.. the joys of make up sex
- bakergirltt
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:20 am
by bakergirltt » Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:49 am
[/quote]
Many women give themselves permission to crticize their husband's propensity for the enjoyment of porn. Has there been an evolution of your expression of criticism of your husband about his enjoyment of porn?
Did your earlier criticism of porn lead to your husband seeking to enjoy porn outside of the marital bedroom? What advice do you have for women who might be tempted to express criticsm of their husbands about their enjoyment of porn inside the marital bedroom?
//[/quote]
Thunderhorse, you use the word "permission" as if a wife hasn't got the right to tell her husband if something he is doing is distressing to her. Firstly, as far as I'm concerned marriage is a commitment between two people and that means that both of them have to respect the feelings of the other. A husband should give his wife the consideration she deserves just as much as she ought to do it for him. Secondly, there are many women who dislike porn for the false expectations it raises, the women's "perfect" bodies and the fact that, if nothing else, it demeans lovemaking between a loving couple because it portrays a raw physical act in which the primary goal is to orgasm and not to love and honour your partner.
In fact, I've been a part of other forums where women discuss things such as these. One woman says she does everything she can to please her man. She watches porn with him, does the whole acting out fantasies etc, makes herself available for sex whenever he wants it, yet he still feels the need to visit porn chat rooms and link up with other women etc. Whether or not he sees this as a need.... its devastating to her and she cannot seem to fulfill his "need". What should she do about this situation? I'd really like to know what you would advise her.
Also, there's been research done on the ill effect it can have on relationships. I can testify to that since my husband preferred to live in a fantasy world than to actually have sex with me. You want to know why? Because the hyped-up and false acting he was so hooked on gave him unrealistic ideas of what lovemaking should be. He felt that he couldn't perform because I wasn't screaming obscenities at him and faking orgasms. He didn't learn how to pleasure me with porn, he expected that it could be just as it is with those actors and it would be good.
My husband hid his porn addiction. He never "came out", he never asked me to look at it with him, he never wanted to look at it in our bedroom. He chose to stay up late and wait until I was in bed... where I was actually waiting for him to come and make love. It is extremely painful as a wife to be rejected that way and then find a videotape with lesbians pleasuring each other or some man performing oral sex on another etc. It was difficult to have hang-ups about your imperfect body and then find pictures of "perfect" porn stars accidentally stored in our computer.. I say accidentally because I knew he would never want me to discover it.
My husband hid because in his heart he believed it was wrong to look at it. He shares the same value system and faith as I do and he grew up with this, hiding it, because in our culture, at least back then, you didn't flaunt your sordid activities. You had to go into the back room to ask for porn, it wasn't laid out there for you. Then along came the Showtime/ Cinemax late night movies beamed right into your living room and the freedom of the internet. Somewhere along the line I think he couldn't break free of it. It caused a breakdown in our sex life, relationship, led to an affair and has somewhat poisoned our freedom to enjoy sex.
What do I mean by that? My husband is extremely uncomfortable with anything that reminds him of what he did with that other woman and, possibly, the fantasies he shared with her based on the porn he looked at. The first time I wanted him to whisper naughty things in my ear he said he couldn't. I got upset because I told him he had had phone sex with someone else, how come he couldn't talk to me, his wife. I tried giving him a "lap dance" for our anniversary, I was reduced to tears because he was so stiff and unreceptive.. I ended up feeling cheap and rejected. I have spoken to him about MY fantasies, I will never be able to act them out , or use them to fuel our desire. I can't even think about them without feeling a shaft of pain because they all involved me surprising him at his office... you get the drift. I feel like all my thunder has been stolen and, when I read all the ways that sex can become boring and mundane and see all the things people suggest you do to liven things up a little, I know I may never be able to do them because he wouldn't be comfortable.
He admits to the ways that porn twisted his thinking. He has told me how he felt about the actual act when what he saw was so different. I was the only woman he'd ever had sex with. I believe that from the very beginning, he must have been dissatisfied with sex. I, being also inexperienced couldn't understand and because of the fact that we both didn't communicate with each other about what we were feeling, it just never got fixed. Sometimes I am a little afraid of things sliding back into that place where he didn't seem to even need sex.
The ghosts of the past haunt me and when days pass and he hasn't initiated it, I feel a little panic setting in. Yet, after 20 years, he says he is having the best sex of his life.. he is finally free of the bondage of porn. It is I, now, who live in its shadow. I know things will get better, its a work in progress.
No, I don't believe porn could ever contribute to a healthy marriage. I will admit to reading stories with some erotic scenes and since everything came out I've been reading all I can to improve our marriage as well as our sex life, but there's a vast difference between gaining knowledge, which I'm grateful for, and having your mind twisted by unrealistic images. I once listened to a lecture given whereby porn was described as similar to a powerful narcotic. You sample it once and it sinks its hooks into you, before long, you crave it more and more. That is what we're seeing now all around the world. People are getting even more sick in their desires, raping animals, babies, old women, defiling the marriage bed with multiple partners, asking their partner to participate in three-somes, having open marriages. Let's not go any further. This is a topic that could open up a whole new Pandora's box.. everyone's got an opinion and this is mine.
As for giving advice, I wouldn't dream of it. Each person has to do what is right for himself or herself. I will say that nobody should have to accept or do something that they are uncomfortable with. If they have a loving spouse that person will respect their feelings and not want to do anything that will hurt or demean them. While I'm all for compromising when something is important... I don't consider porn to be vital to anybody. If it is, then, in my opinion, that person needs to seek help fast!
Many women give themselves permission to crticize their husband's propensity for the enjoyment of porn. Has there been an evolution of your expression of criticism of your husband about his enjoyment of porn?
Did your earlier criticism of porn lead to your husband seeking to enjoy porn outside of the marital bedroom? What advice do you have for women who might be tempted to express criticsm of their husbands about their enjoyment of porn inside the marital bedroom?
//[/quote]
Thunderhorse, you use the word "permission" as if a wife hasn't got the right to tell her husband if something he is doing is distressing to her. Firstly, as far as I'm concerned marriage is a commitment between two people and that means that both of them have to respect the feelings of the other. A husband should give his wife the consideration she deserves just as much as she ought to do it for him. Secondly, there are many women who dislike porn for the false expectations it raises, the women's "perfect" bodies and the fact that, if nothing else, it demeans lovemaking between a loving couple because it portrays a raw physical act in which the primary goal is to orgasm and not to love and honour your partner.
In fact, I've been a part of other forums where women discuss things such as these. One woman says she does everything she can to please her man. She watches porn with him, does the whole acting out fantasies etc, makes herself available for sex whenever he wants it, yet he still feels the need to visit porn chat rooms and link up with other women etc. Whether or not he sees this as a need.... its devastating to her and she cannot seem to fulfill his "need". What should she do about this situation? I'd really like to know what you would advise her.
Also, there's been research done on the ill effect it can have on relationships. I can testify to that since my husband preferred to live in a fantasy world than to actually have sex with me. You want to know why? Because the hyped-up and false acting he was so hooked on gave him unrealistic ideas of what lovemaking should be. He felt that he couldn't perform because I wasn't screaming obscenities at him and faking orgasms. He didn't learn how to pleasure me with porn, he expected that it could be just as it is with those actors and it would be good.
My husband hid his porn addiction. He never "came out", he never asked me to look at it with him, he never wanted to look at it in our bedroom. He chose to stay up late and wait until I was in bed... where I was actually waiting for him to come and make love. It is extremely painful as a wife to be rejected that way and then find a videotape with lesbians pleasuring each other or some man performing oral sex on another etc. It was difficult to have hang-ups about your imperfect body and then find pictures of "perfect" porn stars accidentally stored in our computer.. I say accidentally because I knew he would never want me to discover it.
My husband hid because in his heart he believed it was wrong to look at it. He shares the same value system and faith as I do and he grew up with this, hiding it, because in our culture, at least back then, you didn't flaunt your sordid activities. You had to go into the back room to ask for porn, it wasn't laid out there for you. Then along came the Showtime/ Cinemax late night movies beamed right into your living room and the freedom of the internet. Somewhere along the line I think he couldn't break free of it. It caused a breakdown in our sex life, relationship, led to an affair and has somewhat poisoned our freedom to enjoy sex.
What do I mean by that? My husband is extremely uncomfortable with anything that reminds him of what he did with that other woman and, possibly, the fantasies he shared with her based on the porn he looked at. The first time I wanted him to whisper naughty things in my ear he said he couldn't. I got upset because I told him he had had phone sex with someone else, how come he couldn't talk to me, his wife. I tried giving him a "lap dance" for our anniversary, I was reduced to tears because he was so stiff and unreceptive.. I ended up feeling cheap and rejected. I have spoken to him about MY fantasies, I will never be able to act them out , or use them to fuel our desire. I can't even think about them without feeling a shaft of pain because they all involved me surprising him at his office... you get the drift. I feel like all my thunder has been stolen and, when I read all the ways that sex can become boring and mundane and see all the things people suggest you do to liven things up a little, I know I may never be able to do them because he wouldn't be comfortable.
He admits to the ways that porn twisted his thinking. He has told me how he felt about the actual act when what he saw was so different. I was the only woman he'd ever had sex with. I believe that from the very beginning, he must have been dissatisfied with sex. I, being also inexperienced couldn't understand and because of the fact that we both didn't communicate with each other about what we were feeling, it just never got fixed. Sometimes I am a little afraid of things sliding back into that place where he didn't seem to even need sex.
The ghosts of the past haunt me and when days pass and he hasn't initiated it, I feel a little panic setting in. Yet, after 20 years, he says he is having the best sex of his life.. he is finally free of the bondage of porn. It is I, now, who live in its shadow. I know things will get better, its a work in progress.
No, I don't believe porn could ever contribute to a healthy marriage. I will admit to reading stories with some erotic scenes and since everything came out I've been reading all I can to improve our marriage as well as our sex life, but there's a vast difference between gaining knowledge, which I'm grateful for, and having your mind twisted by unrealistic images. I once listened to a lecture given whereby porn was described as similar to a powerful narcotic. You sample it once and it sinks its hooks into you, before long, you crave it more and more. That is what we're seeing now all around the world. People are getting even more sick in their desires, raping animals, babies, old women, defiling the marriage bed with multiple partners, asking their partner to participate in three-somes, having open marriages. Let's not go any further. This is a topic that could open up a whole new Pandora's box.. everyone's got an opinion and this is mine.
As for giving advice, I wouldn't dream of it. Each person has to do what is right for himself or herself. I will say that nobody should have to accept or do something that they are uncomfortable with. If they have a loving spouse that person will respect their feelings and not want to do anything that will hurt or demean them. While I'm all for compromising when something is important... I don't consider porn to be vital to anybody. If it is, then, in my opinion, that person needs to seek help fast!
- bakergirltt
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:20 am
Lots of stuff
by Scott Haltzman » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:03 pm
Hi Baker Girl,
You cover a lot of ground in your posts. I was thinking about your description of your disappointment in your husband when he didn't show up for your daughter's dance performance. It sounds like your experience of "opening up a dialogue" is viewed by your husband as making accusations.
I wonder if, before saying, "Here's how I feel" (especially if what you feel is negative) you might ask what he is experiencing. When one does that, she does it to truly learn, not so that she has more ammunition to shoot back at her mate.
One of the best was to avoid festering hostility is empathy. "What must my spouse be feeling right now?" is a good question to keep in mind when you're feeling critical.
Thanks, also, for the link to the couple married 82 years.
NB-comments by Dr. Scott Haltzman are not intended either as advice or medical recommendations, but are observations meant to foster discussion.
You cover a lot of ground in your posts. I was thinking about your description of your disappointment in your husband when he didn't show up for your daughter's dance performance. It sounds like your experience of "opening up a dialogue" is viewed by your husband as making accusations.
I wonder if, before saying, "Here's how I feel" (especially if what you feel is negative) you might ask what he is experiencing. When one does that, she does it to truly learn, not so that she has more ammunition to shoot back at her mate.
One of the best was to avoid festering hostility is empathy. "What must my spouse be feeling right now?" is a good question to keep in mind when you're feeling critical.
Thanks, also, for the link to the couple married 82 years.
NB-comments by Dr. Scott Haltzman are not intended either as advice or medical recommendations, but are observations meant to foster discussion.
- Scott Haltzman
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:30 pm
- Location: Barrington, RI
don't go to bed mad
by Scott Haltzman » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:05 pm
yes, I did write not to go to bed mad, but some research has emerged that couples can, in fact, have good marriages even if they don't make up by bedtime.
To me, the point is that you have to do the patch-up work, or know that the repair work will get done, because not repairing after an argument is predictive of divorce.
To me, the point is that you have to do the patch-up work, or know that the repair work will get done, because not repairing after an argument is predictive of divorce.
- Scott Haltzman
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:30 pm
- Location: Barrington, RI
by bakergirltt » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:54 pm
Hello Dr Scott
Yes, I know I'm quite long-winded... don't worry I only do that when I'm writing, I don't fill my husband's head with chatter all day long! Its hard to stop when you get going I guess.
Thank you for your suggestion.. and yes, you hit the nail on the head. My husband does take anything I say that seems to be critical of his actions as an accusation. While I'm no psychologist, I sometimes wonder if he has a problem with women asserting themselves (his mother had the dominant role in the family as his Dad travelled alot).
I certainly learned not to trigger things in our marriage over the years and would back down a lot, especially if I tried to express my view and it started a fight. Now, though, I believe that I deserve to have a voice. I try not to irritate him by invalidating his ideas or opinions, unless I am strongly against something that might affect the children etc. and there are definitely times when silence is golden! I just let him have his say and do not respond. I have, however, started speaking up a bit more than I did before. My alter-ego gave me confidence that I can challenge him occasionally. I just have to find the right way to do it.
I need to learn to reign in my emotions before I speak too. I will certainly try your suggestion. I know it wont be easy but the things that are worth the effort seldom are.
As for going to bed mad, my marriage survived it for years... I just want better now. Maybe I'm selfish but if I can't sleep... why should he?
Just kidding... if he doesn't want to talk things out, I eventually take myself off to the couch because, like I said, it irritates me to hear him snoring while I lie looking at the ceiling till exhaustion takes over. What bugs me the most is that most of my anger etc evaporates before I even fall asleep. He wakes up still angry, still cold and still non-communicative. We do make up though. The longest we went like that was for 3 days, after the whole "Escape" escapade came crashing down. I cant stand the separation. No matter how hurt or angry I am, after a couple of hours I'm ready to reconcile, he holds on to it much longer than I do.
Anyway, I'm winding on again.... thanks Dr Scott, I appreciate your interest.
Yes, I know I'm quite long-winded... don't worry I only do that when I'm writing, I don't fill my husband's head with chatter all day long!
Its hard to stop when you get going I guess.
Thank you for your suggestion.. and yes, you hit the nail on the head. My husband does take anything I say that seems to be critical of his actions as an accusation. While I'm no psychologist, I sometimes wonder if he has a problem with women asserting themselves (his mother had the dominant role in the family as his Dad travelled alot).
I certainly learned not to trigger things in our marriage over the years and would back down a lot, especially if I tried to express my view and it started a fight. Now, though, I believe that I deserve to have a voice. I try not to irritate him by invalidating his ideas or opinions, unless I am strongly against something that might affect the children etc. and there are definitely times when silence is golden! I just let him have his say and do not respond. I have, however, started speaking up a bit more than I did before. My alter-ego gave me confidence that I can challenge him occasionally. I just have to find the right way to do it.
I need to learn to reign in my emotions before I speak too. I will certainly try your suggestion. I know it wont be easy but the things that are worth the effort seldom are.
As for going to bed mad, my marriage survived it for years... I just want better now. Maybe I'm selfish but if I can't sleep... why should he?
Just kidding... if he doesn't want to talk things out, I eventually take myself off to the couch because, like I said, it irritates me to hear him snoring while I lie looking at the ceiling till exhaustion takes over. What bugs me the most is that most of my anger etc evaporates before I even fall asleep. He wakes up still angry, still cold and still non-communicative. We do make up though. The longest we went like that was for 3 days, after the whole "Escape" escapade came crashing down. I cant stand the separation. No matter how hurt or angry I am, after a couple of hours I'm ready to reconcile, he holds on to it much longer than I do.
Anyway, I'm winding on again.... thanks Dr Scott, I appreciate your interest.
- bakergirltt
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by ThunderHorse » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:37 pm
bakergirltt wrote:In fact, I've been a part of other forums where women discuss things such as these. One woman says she does everything she can to please her man. She watches porn with him, does the whole acting out fantasies etc, makes herself available for sex whenever he wants it, yet he still feels the need to visit porn chat rooms and link up with other women etc. Whether or not he sees this as a need.... its devastating to her and she cannot seem to fulfill his "need". What should she do about this situation? I'd really like to know what you would advise her.
I am not sure what "Link up with other women" entails. While infidelity and porn are usually separate issues for most men, patterns of Porn enjoyment can become associated with some undesirable habits.
Whatever "Linking up with other women" might involve, one question is whether this Likning UP is outside the limits of the wife herself.
In the marriagebuilders concepts, there is Plan A and Plan B. Plan A is trying to cooperate and work things out, so both partners get their needs/dsires satisfied.
Plan B is setting some specific changes to be made, for a continuation of cooperation from the unhappy spouse. This usally means planning to separate for weeks or months, whatever itakes.
Mrs. Linking is apparently unhapy with her husband's "Linking UP". What are the sequences, and root causes, of her husband's Linking Up? What would be some reasonable steps to take to arrive at a problem solving step scenerio?
One possibility is that Mr. Linking is addicted to the combination of Porn and Linking up. The diagnosis of an ADDICTION is relevant, because one approach to an addiction, is to quit cold turkey. So it may be reasonable, under that situation, for Mrs. Linking to request that her husband discontinue all linking and all Porn.
Another possiblity is that Mr. Linking has allowed some bad habits to get connected with some usually harmless actvities, such as enjoying Porn. In that case, NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming can assist with correcting some inappropriate behavior sequences leading to bad habits.
Family Intervention can sometimes be coordinated. Once a plan for correction is devised, Mrs. Linking can evaluate the level of Plan B she wants to impliment, given the various repurcussions.
If Mrs Linking is ready to go to Plan B, with good solutions ready at hand, she can attempt to get support for her strategy from others who are important to Mr. Linking.
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- ThunderHorse
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by ThunderHorse » Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:29 am
bakergirltt wrote:
In fact, I've been a part of other forums where women discuss things such as these. One woman says she does everything she can to please her man. She watches porn with him, does the whole acting out fantasies etc, makes herself available for sex whenever he wants it, yet he still feels the need to visit porn chat rooms and link up with other women etc. Whether or not he sees this as a need.... its devastating to her and she cannot seem to fulfill his "need". What should she do about this situation? I'd really like to know what you would advise her.
!
In preparing to discuss what the wife would like her husband to change, it is usually helpful to have in mind the sequence of behaviour for which a change is desired.
An important part of preparing for Plan B is often a request for the offending spouse to participate in some counseling or program, that might lead to an improvement in some area that might lead to a diminishing of the offending behavior.
Habitual behaviour often has certain patterns, for which some intervention can be fashioned. In NLP, Neuro linguistic Programming, Repeated Human behavior can be viewed as a sequence of a trigger, a vision of a short term reward/consequence, Visions of longer term rewards and consequences, the behavior, and finally, the actual sort and long term rewards/consequences
It often takes some self-reflection in order for the offending spouse to reveal the complexity of glipmses of visions of anticipated rewards from a habitual activity.
I am not clear whther the husband's linking up with other women is only on line, just dating, or also in motel rooms. But an NLP therapist could try to find an accurate description of the approach sequence, in order to suggest changes that can be used to alter the approch/avoidance series of glimpses of visions of potential rewards/consequences. Then counseling can be considered, with a fairly specific goal of a limited associated behavioral changes.
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- ThunderHorse
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- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm
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