Co-worker.....

[NotSure]

Hello and thank you for reading this.
My husband and I have been married for almost 9 years now. We have a beautiful 2 year old daughter and I thought life was really good. We have had the sort of relationship that has been effortless. We are best friends and spend all of our time together (which I know isn't right, but works for us). This is going to sound silly, but just recently we purchased smart phones. So, we have access to text messaging now. When we got our first bill, I noticed there were some phone numbers that I didn't recognize (44 texts), so I confronted my husband about them. He said it was a female co-worker of his, Kate. Now my husband works in a hospital and our daughter goes to the doctor in which Kate is the receptionist for, so I have met her several times for checkups. I knew that my husband knew her, but I wasn't aware of their close friendship. He had mentioned months before that the 3 of us should get together because I would really like her..we have so much in common. Well, when I saw the list of texts on my phone bill, I was outraged...so I started snooping on his phone. I had only seen a few of the texts...one of which was something like "oh, i dressed cute for you today". So, in my anger, I confronted him. He said it was all said jokingly and that they were only friends. As the conversation went further, I learned that they had gone to lunch, but only twice. This is all information that he had neglected to say to me when it was happening. They have known each other for 5 years now...so who knows when their lunches were.
The past couple of months have been off and on. We have had several conversations/arguements about her. At one point we discussed divorce, which was the furthest thing from my mind, but apparently not so hard for him. I have made changes in the bedroom. I hadn't been a very sexual person for a few years, so I wanted to change that. I have put a lot of effort into making things go well, but he still insists on being such good friends with Kate. I even invited her over for dinner one night. It was interesting. I was so proud of myself for making such a huge step. I told my husband that i would give a friendship with her a chance, which I have. To me, she isn't interested in a friendship with me..she's content with my husband.
So, to sum this up...I got nosey again today and snooped on his phone (which I can't tell him because I promised I wouldn't do it again..I just feel like something is going on and I don't want to be the idiot..I'm going with my gut). He sent a text to her earlier this morning saying that he couldn't meet her for lunch today. I obviously can't confront him. When I read the text, my heart started beating through my chest and I did (maybe) a stupid thing. I sent Kate a text saying that I needed to talk to her confidentially. I haven't heard back, so I'm sure she is waiting to tell my husband tomorrow at work. I guess I just wanted to see how much he is lieing to me. How long do i stay in a relationship that he is done with? I knot this is long, but it keeps me up at night. The silly situation has consummed me and I just want it to all stop Help!

[socialdistortion]

Dear NotSure,

It is completely ok to have opposite sex friends and communicate with them daily, unless of course your spouse disapproves. This is completely disrespectful to you. Sending your husband a text message that says, “"oh, i dressed cute for you today" is just inappropriate. It is totally flirty in a ‘cross the line’ sense. It is not ok.

Haltzman believes that all email passwords, texts and facebook conversations should be open to your spouse. While I don’t support that 100%, I do think you are right to check his phone concerning this issue. While you are checking his incoming texts, don’t forget to check his outgoing texts also. It is really important to see what he is saying back to her. Regardless, this behavior is not appropriate at all, especially if it continues after you have voiced your concern.



Here is an exerpt from an article Haltzman wrote on this issue-

“When one individual shares close intimacies with another of the opposite sex, particularly if that person is someone who may be viewed as "attractive," they develop a familiarity that binds them closer together. This connection breeds feelings of a specialness that leaves each with the sense that they have a unique understanding of each other—one that other people can’t appreciate. One big problem with this arrangement is that it excludes the spouse, and directs the energies a partner should be putting into his or her marriage out toward other people.

Your mate may believe that opposite-sex friendships are harmless because of the fact that he or she (or his or her friend) are married. This, it is believed, guarantees that this special connection will never evolve into anything more. But that’s just dead wrong! Many friendships outside of marriage start as being "just friends," and grow closer and more intimate. Because these friendships are so fresh, interesting and compelling, and generate such a positive energy, it’s not long before the two people involved start to think they are more compatible than their own life partners. It’s a small step from that realization to the development of a full-blown affair, and the destruction of the marriage.

Not sure if you need to be concerned? Ask yourself these questions:

1. Is the person your partner spending time with someone whom he or she would consider "attractive"?

2. Is your mate spending time with this other person outside of the office (even for office lunches) when other people are not around?

3. Has your spouse excluded his "friend" from your life, either by not telling you when they are meeting, refusing to introduce you or going into another room to talk on the phone when you are near by.

4. Does your partner tell you that he or she has the kind of relationship with this friend that you just couldn’t understand?

A "yes" to (1) and any of the other three questions means your spouse’s friendship may be a threat to your marriage.

It’s wonderful to have many friends. But if your mate is involved in a special relationship with a person that makes you uncomfortable, don’t ignore that feeling. You’ve got to ask for what you need—for your mate to end further personal and exclusive friendships with people of the opposite sex. Remember, your spouse may not be intending to hurt you, and may honestly feel like there is nothing to worry about. You can assist him or her to understand your concerns; it may help to read this article together.

Finally, your partner may feel it’s rude or unfair to the "friend" to end the exclusivity of the friendship. That may be right, but frankly, not taking action is rude and unfair to you. And, in all cases, the needs of a spouse outweigh the needs of a friend. After all, you should always be number one on your partner’s buddy list. http://www.hitchedmag.com/article.php?id=306”

Even if he insists that the relationship is perfectly innocent, then that should make it even easier for him to end it! It is just not all right for him to carry on and text someone else 44 times in one month if you are not approving of this relationship. I do not suggest you contact her in any way or invite her into your home. What he needs to do is to stop responding to her texts without explanation. Just stop responding.

Good luck with this one. Sorry that you are in such a painful place.

Social Distortion

[ThunderHorse]

There are books on how to trap cheaters and liars. Basically, you ask them pointed questions, like, "When do you plan to see Kate for lunch again?"

You can ask your husband for a no contact letter.

You can say you feel uncomfortable with his empotional affair with Kate. and ask him to cut back his contacts with her.

You don't need to snoop, you can just ask pointed questions, which if he gives evasive answers, you can repeat your request that he cut back his contact with her.

You do not mention building up your husband's ego.

"How can I be more fulfilling of your needs and desires, so you will less often think of texting/calling Kate?

What are the stresses in his work? What kind of a car would he prefer to drive? What sports teams does he root for? Why is $121 Million per team salary cap not enough for the NFL Players? How can you make your husband comforable inviting some of his male friends over? What are your husband's ideas about parenting? What does your husband intend to do differently from his parents? How are you supporting his parents wishes for your child?



Chairs, Need/Desires of men from women


Here are some “Chairs” search results form the Secrets Forum


Post near the end of the thread, wife not experiencing passion in marital relations

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs



Post 2 and further on, Wife feels she is doing everything right in the marriage, and household, but husband does not like to engage in conversation, and does not really like to be at home.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs


Last Post Page 1, Wife asks how to get more from her marriage, and what is important to husbands in marriage. Has COUPLE words outlined.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs


3rd post. Attractive wife with 3 children complains that her husband has lost interest in marital relations. Couple Word headings

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs



THE SECRETS OF HAPPILY MARRIED WOMEN, HOW TO GET MORE OUT OF YOUR RELATIONSIP BY DOING LESS, 2008, BY Haltzman and DiGeronimo
Table of Contents:
1. Know Your Husband
2. Nurture His Needs - and Yours
3. Fight Better
4. Talk Less
5. Have Lots of Sex
6. Take Charge of Your Own Happiness
7. Heal Thyself






//

[NotSure]

Hello again and thank you so much for the responses. I don't have a lot of friends that I can talk about this and get an honest answer about it.
I have on several occassions asked my husband to cut back on his friendship with her. He is not willing to give up a friendship because I am jealous over it. He feels that it is ridiculous for me to react over this. With him feeling that way, makes me feel good and bad. It sounds like he really is just friends...but then again, why can't he let go of her if I am in such distress. We talk about this situation almost daily. It usually comes up when we are talking about something unrelated, then I make a joke poking fun at Kate or their friendship. He normally gets frustrated with me..sort of like he is backed into a corner. Then he reacts by either leaving the room or saying something hurtful and mean. I admit, I only say things to get under his skin and/or get a reaction from him. I think you can learn a lot about a situation by the way someone answers you...but I can't get a read on this.
so, right now my biggest problem is that he erases random texts from/to her. Its funny, cause he leaves most of them so I am able to view them. This obviously means he is hiding the flirts ones from me. Is it ok for him to do this? Am I being waaay to over protective? Should I drop this whole thing? In my heart, I really do feel like they are friends...but occasionally flirt. But the flirting drives me insane. I almost view it as cheating in a way. He told me this past weekend to go get a boyfriend. He's tired of hearing about this everyday...and honestly, i'm tired too. I'm tired of feeling like I need to watch everything he does, like I need to control his every movement. I want him to myself, but I feel like I am pushing him away with my constant supervision. But how do I change this?

[ThunderHorse]

I have on several occassions asked my husband to cut back on his friendship with her. He is not willing to give up a friendship because I am jealous over it.

There is Plan A and Plan B.

Plan A is try to provide increased cooperation, to see if reasonalbe accommodations can be worked out.

Plan B is to define what changes your husband must make that will allow your relationship to continue, and condtitions for a separation, and withdrawal of cooperation, until your condtions ar met. You may wish to consult an attorney in your jurisdiction, for details of your rights and obligations, to avoid the concept of desertion.


The discussion could be in terms of how you want to explain your husband's actions to your daughter, when she is a teenager, over 18, and married herself.

"I would like our daugher to be proud of our relationship, and for now I am unhappy, so there is no way our relationship can be a good example for her."

There was no mention of your coordination on parenting ideals with yoru husband or his family. You do not mention the power structure in his family constellation.

Here are some links on Parenting. Have you ever watched any parenting videos together? What parenting videos do you have on hand?


PARENTING

3 Parenting Refs Posted on Thread:

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... .php?t=529




Web MD Article
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/10 ... -teenagers



Gary Smalley
http://www.iquestions.com/video/view/218

DVD’s on Marriage and Relationships
http://www.roadtoglory.us/gasmseondvd.html


Parenting with Dignity
http://www.parentingwithdignity.com/










//

[socialdistortion]

Dear NotSure,

It really sounds like you are struggling between wanting to ignore this and trusting to believe him. I don’t think it matters if you have been married five years or twenty five years, you will always find members of the opposite sex who entertain or amuse you in ways that your partner can’t. It doesn’t necessarily mean that he is being disloyal or wants to sleep with her. Perhaps he just enjoys her the way in which he would enjoy a friend and it makes his work day more bearable. What is unfortunate is that he will not abide by your wishes to stop texting her. Seriously, if he works with her all day long how much more do they need to communicate? Question, if they are just friends do the texts stop at 5pm? Are they texting each other while they are both in the same building working together?

I think in this situation you have three options-

Option 1- You can fight about this daily. You can constantly bring her name up and let him know how disapproving you are of his relationship with her. You can let this bother you every second of every day. You can start letting his flirty friendship interrupt the relationship you share with him. You can make him feel guilty and get even more secretive about anything he shares with her. You can still check his phone and ask him about every text and every missing texts.

Option 2- You can absolutely forbid him to have any contact with her outside of anything that is necessary for work related purposes. You can make his life miserable for making you jealous. You can give him an ultimatum and the follow through on it. You can constantly check his phone and analyze every text he is sending and receiving and then fight about it.

Option 3- You can just stop bringing her name up at all. You can still check his phone but say nothing. You can try to believe that his relationship with her is nothing more than innocent friendship. Perhaps it is. Maybe the combination of her attention and your jealousy is making him feel confident. Sometimes, saying nothing is way more powerful than saying anything.

This situation is just hurtful no matter how you look at it. All three options suck, but I do not suggest Option 1 or Option 2. He really should just tell her that they both should ‘lay low on texting each other as it is really not appropriate’. No one would be hurt and it would save him a lot of grief, but it sounds like it is just not something he is going to do. I am guessing that marriage counselors are flooded with stories like yours and ultimately it is his responsibility to have enough respect for you to stop this behavior. If it really feels right to you to trust him, then trust yourself.

I hope this all plays out right for you,

Social Distortion

[NotSure]

Hello again! The last post really sort of spelled things out for me. I feel like I had a little focus, so I wanted to say thank you for that. Things seemed to going much better the past week or two, until this past Wednesday night. I am still sort of looking at my husbands phone, which i'm not proud of. I have this need to know what he is saying to her. Well, needless to say, I saw a text that suggested they went to lunch together. Several weeks ago, we had an argument, which got quite serious (the word divorce was discussed). He assured me that he would tell me when they went to lunch..well, he didn't mention it. While playing with the phone, I accidentally called her!...from his phone. I didn't want to hang up because I was sure it would be mentioned at work the next day, so I talked to her. I mustered up some courage and just starting asking her questions and telling her how I have been feeling the past two months. She said they had in fact gone to lunch that day. She also said she had gone to lunch with him" countless" times. I was so hurt to hear this. I felt so betrayed and lied to. After speaking with her for 30 minutes, I decided to confront my husband right then and there..even though I had to wake him up to do it. I couldn't hold it in like I normally do. He didn't really have anything to say..said sorry and fell back asleep. I then got a text from Kate asking if I would like to go out shopping with her the next night. I said yes. My husband and I didn't talk all day Thursday, actually started the day yelling, just awful and unlike us. My night out with Kate was a lot of fun. We talked about pretty much everything. I told her how hurt I am and that it really bothers me that they have lunch together and I am left in the dark. She was very sympathetic and agreed with me. I find that she and I have a lot in common. It is unfortunate that they are friends first, I would have liked to be better friends, but I can't see how that is possible since they are friends. Well, to sum this all up..I sort of gave in. I told my husband when I got home that I didn't want to fight, but he needs to know that I felt lied to (which he still really don't think he did..don't know). So, we are getting long well now. We briefly started talking about it a little while ago, so asked how many times they really do go out together. He said 2 or 3 times a week, but not so much lately. I was floored by that number. I still had this impression that it was like once every other week or so. I really hate that he spends so much time with her. I don't find that it is very appropriate, even if it is at work only. I am having a hard time coping with that. Am I supposed to just deal with it? Am I in the wrong for not being happy that husband goes out to lunch with a girl from work that he admitted to flirting with....a few times a week!

[Scott Haltzman]

The problems with friendships with opposite sex people in the "attractive" category is that the friendship can slide into a romance very insidiously. "intimacy" doesn't only mean sex, it means getting to know someone in a deep way. Energy directed toward that (regularly) interferes with intimacy with one's wife (or husband).
During these times, you're prone to getting angry or resentful, which, unfortunately, makes "her" look that much cooler and more fun to be with.
People in this situation have to take a broad approach: asking for a limit on lunches might be a start, and arranging to have lunches of your own with your husband. Maintaining some type of friendship with her isn't a bad idea, if it can help to reduce the risk of romantic tension between her and your hubby, and won't make you seem like a faceless uncaring wife to her.
It does all boil down to trust, doesn't it? But, despite that, there are ways you can make it worse. You want to avoid that.

(these comments aren't to be considered medical advice or therapy. They are offered to promote discussion on the message board)

[ThunderHorse]

Hello again! Am I supposed to just deal with it? Am I in the wrong for not being happy that husband goes out to lunch with a girl from work that he admitted to flirting with....a few times a week!

Thanks for updating your situation.

You might plan out a tough conversation moment, when you and your husband are actaully ready for a calm, provblem solving discussion.

Your husband is lying by omission to you, and you are spouting off after discovering his deception by snooping.

The problem is ongoing, so I suggest you plan a time and situation for the next discussion of your feelings on the topic of hte Co-worker.

Questions fo H:

Do you still feel that it is too much trouble to tell me ahead of time, when you are going out to lunch with Co-Worker?

Can you think of the reasons that might be blocking you from letting me know when you are planning to take her out?

Is there some way you can let me know an update of yoru feelings with the co-worker?

Can you periodically update me as to how you feel I might change to fulfill the gap in your needs, that is filled by the co-Worker?

When is the next time we can schedule to discuss this again, because this is an ongoing issue, and I would like to discuss it in a mature considerate manner, rather than spouting off emotionally.




//

[ThunderHorse]

Can youget her interested in Match making servics, E Harmony, etc?

[NotSure]

Hello again,
the night that I went out with Kate, we talked about her relationship problems. Its funny, because she and I are very similar people. When we are with someone, we expect their complete attention. She seems like she is a somewhat jealous person herself with some of the stories she told me. Which, I guess makes me confused as to why she would intrude on my relationship with my husband. I didn't meantion a matchmaking service.
Lately, I am not feeling threatened of them having a romantic relationship. I guess I am just more jealous of the time they are spending together alone. It hurts my feelings to know that he is telling her everything about our life (on a daily basis) and I feel as though I am in the dark. The night I went out with Kate, whenever I would bring a topic up, she seemed to already know what happened. I think the only thing he hadn't told her, was my feelings towards their friendship/relationship. My husband seems to tell her just about everything, which is funny for a guy that hardly talks to me (especially about feelings). I am trying to not think about this whole situation, because it just puts me into a frenzy. My mind takes over and I breakdown crying all day. I just want my husband to myself. I know that is being selfish, but I just can't help it. Everytime I think about getting a hobby or such to keep my mind off of things, I just get upset thinking that I will be away from my husband and daughter. I'm not sure what solution he could even give me at this point where I would be happy (with the lunches). I just feel like I am all over the place emotionally and I'm spiraling out of control.

[ThunderHorse]

One of my personal rules is that I, as a husband, never speak about my wife or any of my disagreements with her, to any single woman, or otherwise available woman.

You might ask your husband to at least be sure he has discussed any issue with your first, before telling other single women about particular problems in the marriage.


//

[sussana]

I enjoyed reading your post. I feel my situation is similar - or not at all. My husband works with many women. Long hours, intimate situation. There have been a few over the years- as women do- that have been out of line knowing he is a married man.

It's hard to tell what is what looking in from the outside. I suppose I feel, if you are deleting or hiding anything, there is a reason. As much as it hurts, better to see the messages than not, I suppose.

I was actually able to slow my breathing while reading your post. You seem very calm and in control of your emotion.

I feel like my insides are about to burst when my husband is hurting me. I am going through something different now though. You can look at my post (sussana) after the monitor checks it. I guess the part where I feel my feelings should matter more than the 'friendship' is where I related to your story most.

But I hope I can handle my sit with the calm you seem to display.

[elizacol]

Wow! I haven't been to this forum in months and I'm almost regretting my visit after reading your posts.

I am a 'survivor' of my husband's emotional affair.

I have no idea whether your husband is engaging in one or not.

However, your posts reek of disrespect towards you on the part of your husband. Seriously, that is what comes to mind. He knows how much this bothers you, yet continues? Is he this selfish in other areas of your marriage, as well?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, and other posters on this forum may disagree. Perhaps your post brought back some 'repressed' memories. I'm not sure and don't want to take the time right now to reflect upon that. If my feelings change after some reflection, I'll come back and post to that effect.

As it stands now, I think your husband is being very disrespectful towards you and towards your marriage, regardless of whether he's having an emotional affair or not.

[PsychCase410]

So if I understand this situation correctly: your husband has a lady friend, Kate, that you are uncomfortable with and he is well aware of your discomfort. There has been nothing physical between them that you have discovered besides flirty text messages and an occasional lunch date. You tried to befriend her by inviting her over for dinner but she seems to be content with simply being friends with your husband. Your husband also knows you went through his phone and made you promise not to do it again. While there isn't anything wrong with this behavior between the two thus far, the fact that you are not okay with it and your husband hasn't changed his behavior is alarming.

My psychology professor stated in class that the closer someone is to someone, the more likely they are to match up to them. This in turn can lead to the mere exposure effect which is a theory in psychology in which familiarity with a specific stimuli leads to liking. Dr. Haltzman even goes on to state "when a married individual becomes attracted to a person outside the marriage, a series of chemical and hormonal changes in the brain is set in motion that get the addiction off and running". He also believes that it is okay to have friends of the opposite sex as long as they are friends of the marriage. Another key fact that Dr. Haltzman states is to maintain total transparency when trust has been lost.

In other words, to relate these theories back to you, the interaction your husband is having with Kate is making them both available to each others discretion. This is increasing their familiarity with each other which leads to possibly liking each other. Also, since Kate is only a friend of your husbands and not particularly of yours this is making their relationship, whether its platonic or not, inappropriate. In addition, while your husband has not yet been caught as an adulterer, the fact that he is not okay with you going through his phone is not okay at all. In order for you to trust him, he needs to be 100% transparent which requires you to be able to go through his phone at anytime, anywhere.

In order to put an end to this situation, you need to enforce the fact that you are not okay with their relationship to your husband. Encourage couple's counseling with your husband and see if he is open to the idea. I know you have talked about divorce on occasion about this situation, so if your husband doesn't end his relationship with her and chooses divorce without even the slightest attempt, there is nothing more you can do. In that scenario, I would say divorce is the answer since your husband wouldn't be putting any effort into the marriage whatsoever, especially since you have a 2 year old daughter with him. You definitely don't want to be raising your daughter in a toxic household.