Need help in Birmingham

[Dan]

I need help ASAP to save my marriage. Without going into details about our problems, let me just say that my wife and I both agree that we love one another. We tell each other "I love you" on the phone every day. We've tried counseling twice with no solutions to the problems. She wants to go back next week and try again but I have my reservations. I'm so emotionally spent with our problems that I found myself searching for a divorce lawyer today. Why do things have to be so compicated when two people love one another? I've read Scott's book and fully agree with his logical viewpoints which make so much sense. I want someone like him to bring my/our problems to instead of the guy we've been seeing. Can anyone recommend someone in the Birmingham,AL area? Someone who subscribes to the education principle rather than the counseling principle. I did a quick search on www.smartmarriage.com but didn't find any classes or seminars in our area. Thanks for you help.

[elizacol]

Are you both truly interested in saving the marriage?

Is what is holding you back past hurts/failures/etc.?

Have you read any good books on what makes great marriages?

Are you both willing to change/make changes within yourselves?

Sorry for so many questions. I have ideas, but just don't know where to start because your post didn't say much.

[Dan]

Let me try to give a little background information . My wife and I have been married for 18 months. This is the second marriage for both. I have 3 boys from a previous marriage. Malinda has one son, not from her previous marriage, but from a brief relationship she had after her first marriage. Her son has never known his father and Malinda has raised him as a single parent. We are both college educated and work in the medical field. She and Josh were living in an apartment when we married and then they moved into my home. There was tension from the beginning because she stated that I didn't make them feel at home. That's true because I was not used to living in what I felt was a chaotic atmosphere. I am a person of routine and order for the most part although I can be casual and disorderly at times. However, Malinda seems to thrive in chaos with things like clothing and books, etc. just thrown around everywhere. Dishes piled high in the kitchen. They both like the TV on constantly eventhough other, more important, things are going on----- like trying to do homework or eating dinner. And I admit that I sweat the small stuff to much at times but their lifestyle really was hard to live with. Anyway, she decided to move back to an apartment where they could be more comfortable. Since then we've attempted counseling on two different occasions with limited success.
Malinda's major problem as I see it is conflict avoidance. Every time I bring up an issue that she feels differently about, she clams up. My major problem is that I've spoken badly toward her and ridiculed her for not opening up and sharing what she feels. I've hung up the phone on her before on purpose, but there are times when I'm the only one talking or I'm just listening and waiting for a reply. But no reply comes. I can't just sit there and try to carry on a conversation with someone who won't respond. It's like trying to dig a hole in concrete just to get her to talk sometimes. The problem for me now, and it's a serious one, is that I love her so much that I can't stand this separation any longer. She stated that I didn't let her make any decisions so we decided that we would get a home together instead of living in my home. That was what she wanted to do. Well, in order to do that I would have to rent out or sell my home. I've been working hard to fix up my home and ready it for rental by the first of Nov., however now she says we can't live together and should just continue the counseling! She says that she loves me but that's the only indication I have that she actually does. She doesn't touch me when we're together and she seems perfectly contented to live her life married to me but in separate homes. I love this woman so much it's killing me not to be with her. I've accepted the fact that we have differences and I'm willing to meet them head on and solve our problems together as a married couple should living in the same house. She says that counseling is the only way and we have to go until everything is worked out. Just to please her, and because I can't imagine giving up on us, I've agreed to go back to counseling with her. But my question is this. How long do we have to go to counseling? When will she feel that things are ok for us to be together again? What is the "exit strategy" for the counseling. Will it be like trying to get out of Iraq with no end in sight? I have admitted my mistakes with her and asked for her forgiveness. But she didn't say anything. I told her I needed her forgiveness. I was at the point of begging. Like I said, I can't imagine giving up on us, but I can't imagine going through this emotional roller coaster with her and not being with her. I've told her that divorce may be the only option. Please help with your opinion.

[elizacol]

Well, I am a woman...are you sure you want my advice? After all,
there are some on here who feel that this is a 'male' only site,
and that the women here are barging into what should be male
territory.

I don't know...seems to me advice best comes from someone who
has been there, done that, lived (or is attempting to live) through it,
regardless of gender. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

You can ignore that rant. It is directed at another poster.

What you are going to have to do is show her through ACTIONS, not words that you have changed and are willing to stick with those changes.
Yes, you told her, now you have to show her. Show her, day in and day out with consistent actions.

It took a year of showing my husband that my changes were permanent before he truly knew it to be true, that I wasn't just doing it to win him back. I changed because I wanted to change...not because I 'had' to.
I owned up to what I had done wrong in our marriage and stopped doing those things. I backslid, sure, but not really for long. It is amazing how easy something is to do, once one sees the error of their ways and sees how those errors contributed to another's actions. (BTW, this goes both ways, but you can't control her, you can only control yourself and your actions).

If you have to do all the work at first, do it. You will be a better person for it in the long run, regardless of whether she decides to work with you, move back in with you, or whatever.

If you haven't heard of divorce busters, the website and book will give you great strategies that will help.

The big thing you can do right now is to just let her know you are serious about making your marriage work and that you show her with actions, that you are making changes.

Like you, I was devasted when my husband moved out (it ended up being for only 3 weeks, but still, it was devastating). The past year has been difficult, but honestly, I am glad we went through it. We are stronger for it
and have learned (both of us!!) so much about each other, our commitment, and what it takes to make a marriage work.

[Dan]

Thanks elizacol for your advice. It really helps to get a woman's point of view. I will do what you suggest and let my actions support my words no matter how long it takes.
Thanks again for taking the time to read about our problems and give your advice. May God bless you and your marriage.

[roadie]

Malinda's major problem as I see it is conflict avoidance. Every time I bring up an issue that she feels differently about, she clams up. My major problem is that I've spoken badly toward her and ridiculed her for not opening up and sharing what she feels. I've hung up the phone on her before on purpose, but there are times when I'm the only one talking or I'm just listening and waiting for a reply. But no reply comes. I can't just sit there and try to carry on a conversation with someone who won't respond.

Hi Dan

Firstly, thank you so much for responding to my post about hostility toward therapy. I'll get to that later but I read your post and wanted to put down some thoughts to you first.

I agree with elizacol - actions speak much louder than words. Words to me, are just that. They're empty. Words only become valuable and real when they're backed up by action and this is what most women judge men by. Their actions.

I wonder why M clams up ... perhaps she is afraid of saying the wrong thing - or nervous about asking for what she really wants. Putting that kind of information out there can be quite frightening for some people - men AND women. If she feels she is in a safe environment where she won't be ridiculed for clamming up, then perhaps M will be more likely to unfold somewhat. But you must make her feel safe enough to talk to you. You must promise not to make her feel small if she opens up. Be patient.

Re the not talking thing. My husband and I have exchanged harsh words and I would sit there waiting and waiting for him to reply. He would not. I would just walk out of the room b/c I was the only talking. The problem was that he was forming the answer in his head - but would sometimes hit a block. The words would get stuck. He'd want them to come out "just right" so thought about his answers a lot. But he didn't answer as quickly as I wanted him to so I'd get angry. Give her time to answer. Tell M that she can think about her answer for a day or two - then get back to you. She can answer you in a letter if that is easier for her. Via email.

For some people, talking problems over is very confronting. So if M has alternative ways to contact you about her feelings, then that might be worth trying?

I am trying to learn how to share what I feel with my husband. It's a bit of a scary thing b/c he is a 'couplie' kind of guy and Im v independent so we are progressing slowly in the sharing of information. I give him little bits, then he gives me little bits back. Eventually, I hope we both get to the point where we are comfortable enough to share a lot more.

We have learned in the last couple of months that we both speak English but we talk a totally different language. We communicate completely differently and so what we now do is clarify almost everything that is said. It sounds pedantic, but it's really not. This way, it reduces the chances for misinterpretation and also for feelings to be trampled. I ask him to explain things 5 times if I have to, just so that I can understand what he's talking about. It is a great help.

Great idea to move into a different home - you need to both start building your own shared space, with shared memories. Not just your space and evidence of your life.

I dont know if this is of post is useful to you but please don't give up. It is very difficult when you both live in such a different way ... ie chaos vs order. Do you think you can meet halfway on this? That you could let go of the small stuff a little more and she could pick up a little more? That the TV could be on only between certain times??

I know. The compromises are endless. This is what I'm learning too, but I wish you lots of luck and well wishes for your royal progress. I hope my words have been a little bit helpful.

Best of luck
roadie

[elizacol]

Thanks elizacol for your advice. It really helps to get a woman's point of view. I will do what you suggest and let my actions support my words no matter how long it takes.
Thanks again for taking the time to read about our problems and give your advice. May God bless you and your marriage.

You're welcome. And thank you for the blessings.

I hope you are able to make the progress you want to with regards to your marriage.

[Dan]

This reply is to roadie for her advice. Thanks so much for your response.
Explaining things multiple times sounds like a simple way to get the correct message across, but also one that should work. I'll try it. My wife and I are back in counseling with a much better game plan from our counselor that should help with the communication problems.
Thanks again for your help and God bless.

[ayj91]

Hi Dan, I see the last post was on 10/24 and I hope things are better for you and your wife since then but I thought I'd post how I'm currently resolving a similar situation with my wife of 15 years. About 5-6 weeks ago my wife said she didn't love me anymore. Ever since that day we've tried to talk but got nowhere. The only details she would give me is that she had changed and that our relationship had changed and she wanted to find herself. It didn't help that I am the type to flee from conversations when things I didn't want to hear were being said. I relized we weren't getting anywhere by communicating and she seemed intent on leaving me. I was recieving pretty bad advice from people and I quickly realized I had to do this my own way. I searched the web for article on how to be a better husband and I found a great podcast that covered topics on how to argue and converse with your spouse. This podcast helped me to realize I often fleed the conversation right before I started getting somewhere with my wife. Failing to communicate with my wife for years finally made her stop talking to me all together. What the podcast taught me was to listen and if she wasn't talking then I needed to talk to her calmly and honestly. Make her feel comfortable and safe like Roadie suggests. The hard part is it doesn't work the first time or the second time. You have to keep sitting with her and show her you're really willing to talk as well as listen. It may take several sit downs for her to see that you care enough to sit, talk, listen and not walk away when the conversation gets heated. Also, don't talk over each other. When she does start to talk let her finish. Allow for a brief pause before you begin because she may follow-up with something else. At times you may not even need to respond because she just wants to be heard. Remember that being heard goes beyond just listening. It took me several weeks before I was able to show my wife I changed and was ready to truly communicate. Once she felt I wasn't going to judge her or walk away from the discussion or talk over her she laid the first problem on me. When I heard what the problem was I didn't let it linger in my head. I praised her for telling me and I quickly encouraged her to keep talking. After 30 minutes I found out there were three minor issues and one major issue in our marriage and all are fixable. Since that night we have talked on a daily basis. We are now on the same page and we're a few days from getting back together to work on our marriage. What really helped us though this is that we've been civil and not a hurtful word has come from either of our mouths. I found out that she is still in love with me. The problem is I haven't been an empathetic husband and I invalidate or dismiss my wife's problems all the time so this led to a communication problem. She found it easier to leave me then talk to me. Fortunately I figured out I was the problem before I lost her. Remember to also look inside yourself to see if you might be the problem. There's always something we can do to better ourselves to make the ones we love happier and in the end you will be happier too.