Married 10 years - Wife hates part of whom I've become

[mountainracer]

About 1 week ago, after I did something 'stupid' my wife broke down and told me that she thinks life would be easier without me. It was the shock of a lifetime, as I honestly thought we had an almost perfect marriage. We have 2 young kids, a beautiful home, lots of love and happiness.
For the last 2 years, she's been progressively feeling that I've lost some of my good qualities that made her fall in love with me. I've been more short tempered, I can be condescending towards her, and my naturally introverted personality has evolved into me being less outgoing as the years have gone by.
When she said "life would be easier without you" I instantly knew what she was talking about. For example, if I'd loose my temper while driving, she'd ask why I let these little things bother me? I've often heard her say, during conversations or arguments "why do you talk so condescendingly towards me?". I've seen some of my bad habits come out in the way my oldest daughter speaks to her at times. It kills me to hear my eldest daughter speak to her mother that way, and I know it's behavior that was learned from me.
There are a few other aspects of my personality that I know I've failed her with. When she finally let it out, telling me that it was serious to the point that she may not want to be married to me anymore, it's like something flashed before me. I instantly saw hundreds of moments in the last few years where I screwed up - from big to small. I can't fully explain it, but it's like a light bulb when off in my head, and it was clear.
I've changed these traits in the last little while (only 7 days since she made her feelings known), but now she's angry with me that it was so easy for me to see the problems, and wonders why I let them get to that point?
I love her dearly, and have no idea what to do now. She feels a knot in her stomach if I try to kiss her. She's the most funloving, free spirited, happy, strong, independent, loving and well balanced person I know. I hate myself for letting things get this far, but I don't know what to do at this point. I don't think she believes that the changes I made are genuine or that they will last. She does not believe that I've changed for good, and that I won't revert to the hurtful ways once things are going smoothly again.
There are other things we (wife and I) need to work on, but I'm out of kleenex and need more coffee.
Thanks for listening, just typing this is helpful!

[ThunderHorse]

You were abusive, or close thereto.

Give your wife the confidence to point out your being impolite, effectively.

There are two parts to abuse. The abuser and the abusee.

Your wife needs the tools of handling abuse, to handle your oldest daughter.

Here is a thread in which I post some references to Suzette Elgin on handling Abuse, and understanding the motivations for such a habit. Ther are links to other threads. Abse is a common theme in many threads on this board.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ight=abuse



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[ThunderHorse]

One idea of being inconsiderate or verbally abusive is that the abuser is filling a need for an ego boost. Verbally abusive behaviour has a pay off, or reward. Being verbally abusive gives a feeling of self-agrandisement. Also related to oppositonal attitude reward configurations.

So while I congratulate you for changing your habit of being verbally abusive, I also point out that you have not addressed a possible underlying cause of your being abusive, namely that you are not getting the ego boost from your wife or family, as much as you deisre.

Here is a thread under Taking Care of yourself, relating to asking your wife for and ego boost. Aslo search Chairs, Love and Respect, for an explation of why women do not iunderstand what men need in re-assurance..


http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... .php?t=307


Thank you for posting as a reformed verbal abuser. There are a number of people who have posted complaining that their husband or wife was verbally inconsiderate or abusive.




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[mountainracer]

Thanks for the advice. Sorry it took so long to post again, but I had given up on the forum after a few days of inactivity.

I think you're on to something with your comments. I read through the information in your links, and it has helped me out. I called to arrange counseling, I'm hoping I get a call back soon. My wife started counseling last week. Things are still up and down with her emotions towards me. We have not been intimate in over 2 weeks, but she can at least give me small kisses without feeling sick to her stomach. We are doing things together, and are 'happy', although we are both emotionally and physically drained. It kills me that she is still unsure if she wants to spend the rest of her life with me. She feels terrible that she no longer feels a 'spark' for me, although she assures me that she still loves me very much. She's under a lot of stress, and I feel she is putting too much pressure on herself to find the feelings she once had towards me. I'm doing my best to not add to the pressure, but I am craving her touch and emotional connection to the point where I can't help but break down. I try to go for drives when I feel like I'm about to fall apart, but it does not always help. I haven't eaten properly since this started, and have lost 10 lbs. I normally work out 6 days per week, and am a bit obsessive with my health, and the fact that I can't eat means I have no energy to work out. The less I work out, the worse I feel and the more difficult it is to think straight. I'm hoping the counselor will help me out. My wife and I also plan on doing marriage counseling once our individual counselors feel we're ready. I feel like I'm dying here - and I just want to know that things will work out.
I'll put some thought into the ego-boost theory you gave me, I'll let you know what I come up with.
Thanks again...

[ThunderHorse]

Ego boosts don't have to be complicated.

I may do something around thehouse for which my wife would not ordinarily notice. So I will pint it out that I did it, trimmed the hege, or mowed the grass, or edged the yard, etc.

Then I will say something like, "I know you probably did not nortice that I cut the grass, but I would like an expression of appreciation from you for my effort to mow the grass."

"How about a quick kiss?"

I used to think that true appreciation should be completely voluntary. Now I know my wife is on the planet Venus, and has no reality of what efforts I put in to make things work. So I need to find ways to ask for appreciation.

As well as be ready for some comment like, "I told you you should have bought that used riding mower, so the grass could be cut easier. Or some other invention of why appreciation isnot deserved,





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[Scott Haltzman]

Hi Mountain Racer,

I can understand why your wife would feel better off on her own. It's not because you're a bad person, and, while you may be ill tempered, nothing in what you wrote would suggest you are a bone fide abuser.
I think the real issue is that you seem to have taken your wife for granted. What I will often ask clients (a point I make in the "Introduce Yourself" chapter of "The Secrets of Happily Married Men," is: would you want your sister to be treated by a guy the way you're treating your wife? The way your wife ought to be treated is with kind words, lots of positive attention, appreciation and an occasional bouquet of roses.

When a husband transitions to the repair phase of a relationship, he'd better be prepared to go the long haul, and not be looking for too much in return. Early as you get back on the track, he may be tempted to either say to his wife, "OK, my turn." Sorry not an option. Another common thing that a guy will do is to plead his undying love for his wife, and claim that his happiness lie in her hands. That may sound romantic, but to a woman who has felt that she has not gotten enough from a relationship over the last few years, it feels like a demand on her. And, believe me, she doesn't want any demands.

I get the idea of wanting to be on her own, but you should be a source of comfort for her and make her life easier. Who would want to give that up!

N.B. Comments by Scott Haltzman are intended to foster discussion on this message board, and are not intended to reflect medical advice or treatment.

[mountainracer]

Thanks for the tips, I am certainly in this for the long haul. Something that I've not yet disclosed on this forum is that she also told me that she has 'feelings' for someone else. She doesn't love this other person, but has a desire to be with her sexually. The object of her desire is of the same sex. My wife has never had an encounter with another woman, and she's very confused as to where this is coming from. From all of my research, and from speaking with my counselor, I think she found the emotional and friendship qualities in the other woman (whom is gay) that I was lacking. These feelings have manifested themselves as intimate desires for the other woman. As I've said before, my wife and I have not been intimate in ~ 3 weeks now as she only desires to be with the other woman. She told the other women, a coworker, how she feels. The other woman is in a long-term committed relationship and did not reciprocate the feelings. My ego and manhood have taken a big hit, and I'm not sure what to do next. My wife feels as though I'm too needy, and she is simply burnt out and has nothing left to give. I've asked her to cut out other areas of her life to regain her balance, rather than simply shut me out. I'm doing what I can to improve, and get back to the person I was when we were first married. I'm not sure she is holding up her part of the bargain, as I found out that she is still communicating with this coworker, after we agreed that she would stop all non-work related interactions with her until we figure things out. They've gone out for coffee, and she confides in this coworker regarding our relationship and how things are going.
A penny for your thoughts...

[ThunderHorse]

How are your massage skills?

How are you handling rejections, when you touch too long, too soon?

Most women have a re-cycle time, when you can re-approach, with another approach. My wife is 3 minutes, but more women ar probably closer to 7 minutes.

The difference now may be that you are getting rejected in the foreplay approach, and you may need to come up with more romance earlier in the foreplay sequence.

What questions do you have ready to ask her, to star conversations? get her talking? I can ask my wife abouther realtives, her supervisors, her getting to work challenges, doctor visits, etc.






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[ThunderHorse]

Thanks for the tips, I am certainly in this for the long haul. Something that I've not yet disclosed on this forum is that she also told me that she has 'feelings' for someone else. She doesn't love this other person, but has a desire to be with her sexually. The object of her desire is of the same sex. My wife has never had an encounter with another woman, and she's very confused as to where this is coming from. From all of my research, and from speaking with my counselor, I think she found the emotional and friendship qualities in the other woman (whom is gay) that I was lacking. These feelings have manifested themselves as intimate desires for the other woman. As I've said before, my wife and I have not been intimate in ~ 3 weeks now as she only desires to be with the other woman. She told the other women, a coworker, how she feels. The other woman is in a long-term committed relationship and did not reciprocate the feelings. My ego and manhood have taken a big hit, and I'm not sure what to do next. My wife feels as though I'm too needy, and she is simply burnt out and has nothing left to give. I've asked her to cut out other areas of her life to regain her balance, rather than simply shut me out. I'm doing what I can to improve, and get back to the person I was when we were first married. I'm not sure she is holding up her part of the bargain, as I found out that she is still communicating with this coworker, after we agreed that she would stop all non-work related interactions with her until we figure things out. They've gone out for coffee, and she confides in this coworker regarding our relationship and how things are going.
A penny for your thoughts...

Apparently you seem bothered or jealous that your wife wants to talk about how she is attracted to another woman. Maybe your wife senses that her talking about her attraction for this other woman disturbs you. Perhaps there is a dynamic set up, that she talks to you about the other woman, then you are bothered, then she feels rewarded, because she has found a power, to get your attention.

The control of your part of the dynamic is to improve your listening skills, so you can listen to your wife's ideas, without reacting with trying to make her feel mistaken or to change in some way.

Apparently you asked your wife to limit contact with the other woman, your wife agreed with you, and your wife is not following your ideas of proper limits. This is an indication that you might be overbearing, in terms of the way you are communicating wtih your wife, if she agrees to your face, then fails to follow through, when you are not around.

You might review the basis for your value judgements about her seeing another woman, and the way you express these ideas to your wife. A counselor might be able to help you desensitize on this issue, so you can listen to your wife's ideas, without displaying criticism, or upset.




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[mountainracer]

I can't tell if you are serious, joking or missed a dose of your medication. My wife is not interested in being with me intimately because she hates part of who I am and is now interested in a lesbian, not because I don't touch her properly.

As a quick update, I've come to terms with things and am now giving up. I can't continue to live with her and pretend that things might get better. It's been 6 weeks now, and she still has no desire to kiss me or move on to work on the issues.

I love her dearly and she is an incredible person, and admitting to myself that there is a 95% chance that things are over has been unbelievably difficult. Now I need to figure out how to avoid relying on Tequila to get through the day. I know I need to move on, and be a good father but it's taking a while and I'm not sure I have the required tools.

[ThunderHorse]

My point was that unconditional listening helps, and sometimes expressions of affection are at incremental levels during challenging times in a marriage. Perhaps you are unwilling to accept a reduced level of intimacy.

What compliments have you given your wife? Is your wife expressing hatred for you in a manner that allows you to give her blithering, random compliments?

As ideas have come to mind, I have tried to present them on your thread.

I am personally less sensitive to my family when I have been drinking.




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[ThunderHorse]

I can't tell if you are serious, joking or missed a dose of your medication. My wife is not interested in being with me intimately because she hates part of who I am and is now interested in a lesbian, not because I don't touch her properly.

As a quick update, I've come to terms with things and am now giving up. I can't continue to live with her and pretend that things might get better. It's been 6 weeks now, and she still has no desire to kiss me or move on to work on the issues.

I love her dearly and she is an incredible person, and admitting to myself that there is a 95% chance that things are over has been unbelievably difficult. Now I need to figure out how to avoid relying on Tequila to get through the day. I know I need to move on, and be a good father but it's taking a while and I'm not sure I have the required tools.

How can you improve your skills of discharging your wife's anger?

If your wife is telling you she hates you, isn't that a discharge of anger?

How do you define hatered? If your wife is still talking to you, then I don't see Hatred, I see Anger. Anger can be discharged, in various ways. Expressing anger over time is one method. How else? Through the Boring Baroque Response.

Search 180 degrees Divorce Busters.

How many more ways can you offer to change, except for stopping being verbally abusive to your wife.

Your wife said you are too needy. How can you become less needy, or more self-sufficient? Have you asked your wife how you can become less needy?

Certainly it is your decision if you wish to give up on your marriage.



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[peace333]

In reading your note that you did something stupid which at that point caused your wife to say that “life would be better without you”, and you stated that you thought you had a “perfect marriage”? I was a little puzzled as I was wondering how things could be so bad in your wives eyes but yet so different in your eyes? Did you not see anything in all the years you were married that made her upset or cause arguments? You stated that you often heard her say, during conversations or arguments "why do you talk so condescendingly towards me?". She was expressing her feeling of being hurt and unhappy as to how you were being towards her and treating her. It seems that this was going on for some time. That was a cue that things were not right with her and that she did not like you speaking or treating her that way. When you actually saw your daughters learned behavior that she learned from you as you state you should have really taken a step back to ask yourself is this what I sound like?

Change is a hard to do but with a conscious effort I truly believe you can become the person you want to be for your wife and what she is looking for. Dr. Haltzman states that men should “ Treat your marriage like a job” and "when you use the work strategies that you use in the workplace at home, you can be really successful," also he said, “ men need to make their wives their priority.” He also said that, “there are good ways to fight and bad ways to fight”. I feel that in time she will begin to trust you as long as you are making the effort to change. I also feel that you need to step in when your daughter speaks that way to her mother and show your wife that you are also helping to change your daughter’s behaviors as well as your own. Your wife is looking for respect from both of you and that is something she well deserves.

In a class I am taking my professor states that “the number one goal in relationships should be to make your partner happy. You can’t satisfy you partner if you don’t listen to them and understand their wants and needs.” It sounds as if she still cares for you and is a wonderful person as you still see all her good qualities. Maybe if you try and talk with her and tell her these things she may listen and give you a chance to really make a change in your relationship with her. You need to build her up and be open and honest with her so that she can trust you again. There is work ahead but work well worth it, make her your priority! I wish you much luck and happiness.