My Marriage is over - is it too late to save?

[Maginty]

We have been married 4 years but have lived apart for the last 12 months. My husband has now filed to legally finalise our financial affairs which has caused great angst for me.

Last weekend I found he has been on two dating websites; one for 2 months = he was looking for women for relationships even though we went away for a weekend break together and we have slept together a number of times since.

From the start of our marriage he continued to live like a batchelor and went out with his buddies and called me controlling when I said that wasn't appropriate behaviour. He now doesn't see his friends as they all decided they had had enough of our marital dramas. He blames me for his "social destruction".

His family is interferring. His sister banned me from the family after we had been married 12 months and he has always defended her behaviour and doesn't see how wrong it is for her to act like this and for him to allow it.

We have been to 4 counsellors but these sessions turned into venting sessions and made things worse.

I have begged him to reconsider walking away from our marriage but he says that there are too many problems and we can never had what we had at the start when we were madly in love. He is about to move out of his family's home and into an apartment.

Is there anything I can do to save my marriage or is he right that it has gone too far and is too late?

[Artemus]

It sounds like you’ve been through a lot, and that times are complicated, and this is a really confusing time. But it sounds like things were better in the past. Can you tell me something about the kinds of things that you and your husband did together when you were first dating (or married) that you both really enjoyed. Maybe that can help me (and you) see where he was coming from, and not just where you were coming from in terms of what made you happy and fulfilled (each of your) needs.

[Maginty]

Early in our relationship, he played sport 5 nights a week and he was keen for me to come along every night and watch but as it was winter, I started to get sick standing around in the cold and rain watching him play.

I didn't enjoy it for this reason but when I told him this in a counselling session he didn't understand that I went to make him happy and because it was important to him. All he heard was that I went out of duty.

We did enjoy going to music concerts together and He enjoyed the ballet (which surprised me) but he does love the arts and he had never seen ballet before. We enjoyed going to sports events together and with friends.

He enjoyed popping round to his sister's place all the time but I felt that we wore out our welcome there and that we should be making our own family dynamic and habits and develop our own "couple" friends that included other people as well as his family.

Going to his parents' place for dinner every Sunday was important to him but he didn't tell me this. I worked that out later.

His mother never made any special effort to get to know me - all invites were via text messages or calls to his cellphone. She never once called on the landline and asked me to dinner.

This made me feel like I only got an invite because I was married to my husband not because I was a new and valued member of the family.

So I generally didn't feel an overwhelming urge to go but I did sometimes, just not as often as we were asked. Eventually the invitations stopped.

We also used to enjoy watching "Dancing with the Stars" early in our relationship and we even went to a few dancing classes. I don't know why he suddenly decided that he no longer enjoyed it.

A couple of times we went horse-riding together and canooing both of which we loved but whenever I asked him if he wanted to do these things again (to recreate the fun that we had had in the past), he would always refuse.

[ThunderHorse]

Is there anything I can do to save my marriage or is he right that it has gone too far and is too late?

You do not mention how you boost your husband's ego.

How can you be more supportive as a fan of your husband's sports teams?

How can you give your husband more recognition for the job he holds, and the work challenges he meets?

How can you be more suportive of his time with his friends?

What are the hierarchy's of importance of people, and how can you give more dfference to your husband's coices of importance?

If his siste has banned you from her familyh, how can you work around that, and still give his sister respect?

What changes could you make to make peace with your sister-in-law?



What were the financial difficulties?


See ideas on Respect, if you give your husband more respect, he may feel more love for you.



Chairs, Need/Desires of men from women


Here are some “Chairs” search results form the Secrets Forum


Post near the end of the thread, wife not experiencing passion in marital relations

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs



Post 2 and further on, Wife feels she is doing everything right in the marriage, and household, but husband does not like to engage in conversation, and does not really like to be at home.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs


Last Post Page 1, Wife asks how to get more from her marriage, and what is important to husbands in marriage. Has COUPLE words outlined.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs


3rd post. Attractive wife with 3 children complains that her husband has lost interest in marital relations. Couple Word headings

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs



During intimacy, is there any way you could give more enthusiasm for his imaginations of visions more pleasure? Can you ask him more often what he is imagining would give him more pleasure?






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[ThunderHorse]

. He now doesn't see his friends as they all decided they had had enough of our marital dramas. He blames me for his "social destruction".

His family is interferring. His sister banned me from the family after we had been married 12 months

Some women view marriage as an opportunity to be honest. Is it possible that you could have found ways to be more accomodating with your husband's friends and family? Can you think of any situations in which you could have more accomodating and less honest? Are there any ways you can be more accomodating to your husband's friends and family at this time?

Some husbands have a desire for stimulation and discharge in the mornings. Is there some ways that you could find to be accomodating of your husband before, and during, breakfast? Are you a morning person? How does the timing of desires for marital relations match, and mismatch, for you and your husband? Are you familiar with the prostate health statistics for men who limit relations to once a week? The fequency of prostate cancer goes up significantly.




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[Maginty]

Is there anything I can do to save my marriage or is he right that it has gone too far and is too late?

You do not mention how you boost your husband's ego.

How can you be more supportive as a fan of your husband's sports teams?

How can you give your husband more recognition for the job he holds, and the work challenges he meets?

How can you be more suportive of his time with his friends?

What are the hierarchy's of importance of people, and how can you give more dfference to your husband's coices of importance?

If his siste has banned you from her familyh, how can you work around that, and still give his sister respect?

What changes could you make to make peace with your sister-in-law?

What were the financial difficulties?

Thank you Atemus and Thunderhorse for your replies.

I felt my relationship was very unbalanced. My husband has BPD and body dismorph which means for most of our marriage, all emotional support has been from me to him.

I constantly tried to make him feel better about himself by telling him how desireable he is physically and how wonderful he is, I wrote him notes which I slipped into his wallet, our love-making was amazing and very frequent, I would tell him how happy he made me (even after our relationship started deteriorating).

He was very physically affectionate at the beginning which I found difficult as my previous husband was not but I continued to tell him that although I found it difficult to initiate these displays of affection, they made me feel loved and very special and if he gave me some time, I would relax and become more of an initiator.

I would send him text messages when I could and always as soon as I got to the office and this was always full of loving and positive thoughts. He loved this. At the start of our marriage, I would respond to his more frequent texts between meetings but towards the latter part of our co-habitation the frequency of his texts decreased to the extent it would be me getting no response from him at all or if I did, it was infrequent.

Early in our marriage, I continued to go to watch him play in his sports but because I was the principal income earner, I tried to explain to him that I couldn't continue to watch his outdoor winter sports as it was causing me serious health problems with some financial repercussions but that I would continue to watch him play indoor sports or during the summer.

He then stopped playing sports as he got injured and then focussed entirely on work which was getting busier. Two years ago I asked if he wanted to play one weekend in a summer sports team related to my work. He did and joined the team for the season (without discussing me with this me first, despite it meaning he would now spend 5-6 days working a week and the remaining day or 2 days in the weekend playing sport).

Despite my feeling disappointed that we wouldn't be able to spend any time together during the summer weekends, I asked him if I could come and watch him play and he said no. He thought it was better if this was his "alone-time". I pointed out that this sport was my favourite, he was playing with one of my work-mates (and my brother!) and I only wanted to pop by for a couple of hours but he refused. When I popped by from time to time, he would be rude to me in front of the team and virtually ignore me. I told him this made me feel really awful but it made no difference.

As my husband was building his business, I was supportive emotionally as well as financially. I listened and advised, helped him promote his business, funded his business vehicle. I even reduced my hours to 4 days a week incurring a 20% salary cut, to work for him if he needed it.

On his sister, I have phoned her twice to ask if we could meet to discuss why she has prevented me from being a part of my husband's family but all I got both times was abuse from her included her taunting me for having had many miscarriages. I stayed calm throughout and did not buy into the abuse or bad language but she refused to meet with me or discuss why she has done this.

My husband is no longer on medication. He was on quite a cocktail of medications when I met him and our marriage problems began to occur when he started to wean himself off his anti-pyscotics. He was extremely paranoid, was attention-seeking (think this is why the problems with his sister were born) and created dramas by pitting people in his life against each other. He was using cannabis although less than when I first met him. He was also suicidal which I tried to combat by telling how much he was loved, needed, respected and appreciated.

He now has a successful business which he buries himself in 6 days a week. Even in the latter part of our marriage, it consumed him. He said it had become his passion since his relationship was so bad.

He is no longer suicidal and appears on the face of it to be positive and happy. My real concern is that his family think he has a chemical imbalance that caused his addiction to drugs and alcohol. They never understood that he used these to neutralise how he felt about himself due to the BPD and body dismorph. He only told them about the BPD three years ago and his sister laughed.

he told me that he has decided that sorting out the issues around our marriage is too big and that the easier thing to do is divorce and move on, Hence him looking for a new relationship.

In relation to me, it is very much a case of him splitting. I am where all the problems lie and his life can be 'simple' if he cuts me out.

[ThunderHorse]

We have been married 4 years but have lived apart for the last 12 months. My husband has now filed to legally finalise our financial affairs which has caused great angst for me.

Last weekend I found he has been on two dating websites; one for 2 months = he was looking for women for relationships even though we went away for a weekend break together and we have slept together a number of times since.

From the start of our marriage he continued to live like a batchelor and went out with his buddies and called me controlling when I said that wasn't appropriate behaviour. He now doesn't see his friends as they all decided they had had enough of our marital dramas. He blames me for his "social destruction".

His family is interferring. His sister banned me from the family after we had been married 12 months and he has always defended her behaviour and doesn't see how wrong it is for her to act like this and for him to allow it.

We have been to 4 counsellors but these sessions turned into venting sessions and made things worse.

I have begged him to reconsider walking away from our marriage but he says that there are too many problems and we can never had what we had at the start when we were madly in love. He is about to move out of his family's home and into an apartment.

Is there anything I can do to save my marriage or is he right that it has gone too far and is too late?

It seems that you might not have found a way to completely make up with your husband, and that there have been lingering feelings of past arguments and disagreements, even though you stop argueing long enough for occasional marital relations.



THE SECRETS OF HAPPILY MARRIED WOMEN, HOW TO GET MORE OUT OF YOUR RELATIONSIP BY DOING LESS, 2008, BY Haltzman and DiGeronimo
Table of Contents:
1. Know Your Husband
2. Nurture His Needs - and Yours
3. Fight Better
4. Talk Less
5. Have Lots of Sex
6. Take Charge of Your Own Happiness
7. Heal Thyself


The FIGHT BETTER chapter describes the sequeence of stages of a man's attitudes during varous stages of fdiagreements. The objective for a wife, is to get through the stages, and get to making up, as quickly as possibve, so that less time is spent in the sages of arguing about differences.

What differences seem to be blocking fully making up, and what options do you have, to take the intiative to make suggestions that could put the differences aside, for the present time, and till some future situation or date?


Marital relations can be a part of putting disagreements aside, for longer into the future.


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[ThunderHorse]

From your post under Communicaton :

My husband was diagnosed with BPD as well but he doesn't believe the diagnosis. I made the mistake early in our marriage of getting him off his meds as I was sure that a loving, beautiful man like him didn't need to be pumped full of drugs that were causing other health issues for him.

We are no longer together - 12 months now he has been gone and he tells me he has seen sides of my personality that means he will never want to live with me again. I know this is the BPD and that he is splitting and I am black, black, black......

I only wish I still had the love of my beautiful husband.

Can you husband go back on meds now?

What were the reasons he went on meds, in the first place?

What were the positives and negatives of his being on meds?

What changes did you see, when your husband followed your suggestion to stop taking his Bi-Polar meds?

Can you now encourage your husbend to get back on the meds that were helping him? How can you ask for his forgivenss, if he feels you were mistaken for asking him to stop his meds?

If you feel he was taking too many meds in the ast, how could he cut back, for a trial for now? What meds might have been helpful? What doctors can you contact for advice on meds? Where else can you get advice on Bi-Polar medications?

Most people who are Bi-Polar need to stay on their meds even though they don't actually need the meds most of the time. The problem is, that on those occasions when the BP person needed to be on meds, it is impossible to turn the clock backwards, and get back on the meds. So it is important to have support for taking meds every day, so the meds are in the body, when the need arises. It is not apparent that there was a need, fo the meds, until the BP person goes off the meds, and then has a few incidents of bad judgement.

How would you describe your options for suggestions on BP meds to your husband at this time?




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[ThunderHorse]

In relation to me, it is very much a case of him splitting. I am where all the problems lie and his life can be 'simple' if he cuts me out.

I have posted a number of concepts which a wife might apply in the interests of restoring a marriage.

I am not giving advice that you should, or should not, take that course of action. It may be best for your own future, to allow the marriage to stop.

It sounds like you have already tried many of the suggestions made by experts. BPD people can be very charming, but very difficult in marriage.





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[Maginty]

hello Thunderhorse

thank you for your reply.

Sorry I may have confused you. He has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) - he isn't Bi-Polar. I take it that your questions are even more relevant for someone with BPD ?

He thinks he is fine and doesn't need any meds any more. He would be furious with me if I suggested he needed some meds and say that yet again I am blaming him for everything.

Yes, everything changed when he came off the meds. The loving, kind caring man I married became this cold, uncaring, non-empathetic person who could be Mr Nice but more often was Mr Nasty.

[ThunderHorse]

[
On his sister, I have phoned her twice to ask if we could meet to discuss why she has prevented me from being a part of my husband's family but all I got both times was abuse from her included her taunting me for having had many miscarriages. I stayed calm throughout and did not buy into the abuse or bad language but she refused to meet with me or discuss why she has done this.

My husband is no longer on medication. He was on quite a cocktail of medications when I met him and our marriage problems began to occur when he started to wean himself off his anti-pyscotics. He was extremely paranoid, was attention-seeking (think this is why the problems with his sister were born) and created dramas by pitting people in his life against each other. He was using cannabis although less than when I first met him. He was also suicidal which I tried to combat by telling how much he was loved, needed, respected and appreciated.


He is no longer suicidal and appears on the face of it to be positive and happy. My real concern is that his family think he has a chemical imbalance that caused his addiction to drugs and alcohol. They never understood that he used these to neutralise how he felt about himself due to the BPD and body dismorph. He only told them about the BPD three years ago and his sister laughed.

he told me that he has decided that sorting out the issues around our marriage is too big and that the easier thing to do is divorce and move on, Hence him looking for a new relationship.

In relation to me, it is very much a case of him splitting. I am where all the problems lie and his life can be 'simple' if he cuts me out.

Bipolar and Self-Esteem issues may have been patly a result of his interactions with family members. A Non-medication approach to Bipolar would be to help your husband to sort out his feelilngs of put-downs and control by his family members, and how he could handle his relations with family members better.

Since you are working, it may be difficult for you to ask your husband about his ideal sequences of accommodations in the mornings. Perhaps if mornings were better, your husband would want you there in the mornings.




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[ThunderHorse]

. He has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) - he isn't Bi-Polar. I take it that your questions are even more relevant for someone with BPD ?

He thinks he is fine and doesn't need any meds any more. He would be furious with me if I suggested he needed some meds and say that yet again I am blaming him for everything.

Yes, everything changed when he came off the meds. The loving, kind caring man I married became this cold, uncaring, non-empathetic person who could be Mr Nice but more often was Mr Nasty.

Sorry for my misunderstanding on Bi-Polar.

There is a lot of recent literature on Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is sometimes associated with Borderline Personality disorder. You might look at that literture, available on the Web through Google, to see if that is applicable to your husband. The suggestions for Narcissistic is to ignore the unkind things he says, and try to find ways to boost his Ego.

His joining the sports team, with a large time committment, on the spur of the moment, seems like he is not good at evaluating suggestions from others, and managing expections that others are putting on him.

I admire your trying to work things out, but you have not really shown me there is a high amount of value for you.

If you desire to have children, it does not seem the best supportive situation, with his family, together with the chances of raising a child with challenges.



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[Scott Haltzman]

Hi Maginty,
Thanks for joining the forum.
It's an incredible challenge to be married to someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. Heck, it's a challenge to be married to ANYONE, but people with BPD have pervasive trust issues, and do tend to be all or nothing thinkers. Unfortunately, you've faded from the "All" category to the "Nothing." On the other hand, he's shown the ability to be a successful business man. That shows he does have the ability to stick with things that involve commitment and skill.

Ironically, an intact marriage can one of the best predictors of a good outcome with this disorder. So, on one hand, fighting for your marriage can be draining, on the other had it's a gift to him if you can keep the marriage intact.

[Maginty]

A Non-medication approach to Bipolar would be to help your husband to sort out his feelilngs of put-downs and control by his family members, and how he could handle his relations with family members better.

Hello again Thunderhorse

I appreciate you spending so much time reading my posts and giving me so much to think about. It truly has been helpful.

I am amazed that you have read so accurately between the lines for the little that I have said.

He has not said that his family puts him down but I think because he has been so troubled since his teens and has caused his family much grief and heartache, that he is now constantly trying to make up for it.

He told me that he is trying to be "a good son" which is admirable but this may be partially why he wants to move away from me; he doesn't want to displease them.

I know that his family would be pressuring him to walk away from our marriage as a "clean cut" would make life easier for them especially in light of his borderline personality disorder and how it affects them.

In relation to his family, he was the perfect son until he was 14. He then rebelled and became his mother's nightmare. I don't know why. His sister on the other hand has always been a "perfect daughter".

Although my husband loves his sister dearly, the way his parents treat her preferentially must be incredibly hurtful to him. It hurts me to see it so it must be worse for him.

I worry about his relationship with his sister.

It is so strong it almost seems "unnatural" to me. My gf commented that his sister acts more like a jealous ex-girlfriend than a sibling..

My husband talked more to his sister about our marriage than he ever has to me. She knew about the decisions he was making long before he shared them with me. He told me this.

When I used to ask him what was going on, he wouldn't talk to me until he had discussed it with her and then he would just tell me what he had decided. There was no discussion between us.

To me it has always seemed like she was his "significant other" not me.

This is not a jealousy thing on my part. I have a large family and get on well with 3 of my 4 siblings but I don't live in their pockets like he does with his sister.

I think she also enables him to live in this state of hiatus.

Before he moved in with me, he was living with her.

On our second date, the first time I met her, she asked him in front of me if he had brushed his teeth. I was shocked that she would ask him that, especially in front of his date.

She used to organize everything for him from who was cooking dinner to who would go grocery shopping and had him playing sports in her teams after work during the week and she would include him in her social outings.

He used to criticize me as we didn't have an active social life (hard as he would generally start a drama a day or so before any social activities) but I would tell him I was his wife, not his social secretary and he was just as responsible for our social life as he was.

But I knew who he was comparing me to and in his eyes I just didn't measure up.

There is something wrong with their relationship and it's more than just them being close. I can't put my finger on it but my gut tells me that something isn't right.

She rubs his neck and walks on his back barefooted like a geisha and they think that is ok. I think it's almost sexual.

It worries me that he is taking advice from someone who doesn't understand what his emotional and mental issues are about and she can't see through the "veil of positivity" that he projects.

She really can't see how unwell he is and I fear for him.


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[Maginty]

There is a lot of recent literature on Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is sometimes associated with Borderline Personality disorder. You might look at that literture, available on the Web through Google, to see if that is applicable to your husband. The suggestions for Narcissistic is to ignore the unkind things he says, and try to find ways to boost his Ego.
//

Hello again

I have googled NPD and you are right - there are a lot of behaviors attributed to people with this disorder that I see in my husband.

He has no empathy and often he would pick, pick, pick at me when I came home from work until eventually I got upset. Then he seemed "happy".

I have never experienced before someone who is "happy" to upset the person he most loved in the world. In some cases I would be so distraught that I would go into our bedroom and lie down on the bed and cry only to hear him laughing at Comedy Central on cable.

He is also controlling. Most importantly his world is centred on him, his needs, his job, his happiness, him. His family. All else is excluded.

You are right. I don't think there is much left in this marriage for me. He has gone and all he wants from me now is money.