Who's right?

Who's right?

Postby Tom C. » Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:41 pm

Remember one thing. The women is ultimately always right, no matter
how many facts one can place in front of her. Facts are not
relevant. It's her "feelings" that rule her every thought and
action.

Deal with it or don’t get married. (Tom C., 40, married 14 years)
Tom C.
 

Postby whome112 » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:48 am

As I see it:

If you're in a "relationship" with a woman who is always right, you're not in a relationship. What you have is some perverted form of parent & child thing going on.

I do not always agree with my wife, she does not always agree with me. We talk it out and compromise or agree to disagree.

This "mama is always right" thing seems to come from both the Christian right and the progressive left. I cannot understand it. It makes no sense. It is no more a proper way to see marriage than the older "daddy is always right."

We might agree that the gender pendulum has swung too far. Women have too much power and men not enough. We do nothing towards making this a better world by agreeing to knuckle under to the political whims of this world. We do nothing towards making our own life better by knuckling under in issues which matter. (OK I agree, a little ignoring the small things is a good idea: For men and women.)

whome 51 m(2): 6 years
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Postby Lonely Canuck » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:43 pm

For quite a while I was under the impression that my wife was always right - she certainly spoke with authority! - and I deferred to that. I am now seeing what damage my actions have caused me and our relationship. whome is correct, in that a sick parent/child relationship developed. I got some payoffs to be sure to maintain it - being taken care of, not having to think etc, but it deprived both of us of too much. Now here we are, with many wasted years, and wondering how we can make it better.

I believe that any relationship requires mutual respect at its core - and that respect needs to be shown on a daily basis.
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Postby whome112 » Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:10 am

Lonely Canuck wrote:For quite a while I was under the impression that my wife was always right - she certainly spoke with authority! - and I deferred to that. I am now seeing what damage my actions have caused me and our relationship. whome is correct, in that a sick parent/child relationship developed. I got some payoffs to be sure to maintain it - being taken care of, not having to think etc, but it deprived both of us of too much. Now here we are, with many wasted years, and wondering how we can make it better.

I believe that any relationship requires mutual respect at its core - and that respect needs to be shown on a daily basis.


It is a bit of a shock to wake up. You see that I'm sure.

Mind you, we all have our strengths. My wife would rarely argue on a gender-theory issue as I would rarely argue on a personal-communication issue. We are too strong in those areas and respect the other's skills.

Make it better? Get to know one another. Really get to know who is in that other head!

Have you ever read "Getting the love you want" by Harville Hendrix? Get a copy and do the work he suggests. It makes a difference. I'd say Hendrix's work is not the only path to a better marriage. It is one path though and choosing a path is better than doing nothing. Many of Haltzman's ideas have merit (the site owner).

A lot of us have spent time at work fishboning a problem: Oh we may not have called it fishboning! (That's engineering jargon for the process.) But, we've sat around discussing a work problem and throwing out ideas which might result in a solution. That's all that is needed to fix some marital problems. Sit around and throw out ideas, listen to the other's ideas. See how the ideas work together to create solutions. See how the other's ideas show what their concerns are.

Listening is a good skill to learn too! Listening to your woman is valuable and sometimes all that is needed. It's not at all a hard skill to learn and can be worth a lot if learned. Mind you, today too many men listen to what is blame and shame and in no way a real conversation: That is unhealthy.

whome
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Perverted

Postby ruff-rida » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:13 am

Whome wrote: "What you have is some perverted form of parent & child thing going on." :shock: LOL Damn thats deep !
ruff-rida
 

Postby whome112 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:07 am

I don't know about deep ... it is true.

I see so many men these days who deeply believe that mama is always right: That's garbage. Mama or papa or neither or both may be right.

If you're in a relationship wherein your partner is always right, you're not in a marriage at all. One partner --either one-- is never always right. We're people and people make mistakes; all people make mistakes.

These so called marriages where the women rules are by definition unhealthy. The woman takes on the role of parent and the man the role of child. Incest or psychological molestation may be the better description of these relationships.
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Postby Guest » Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:13 am

whome:

Actually the progressive left favors criticizing the hell out of their leaders. Go to a right-wing forum and you're kicked out for questioning dear leader. Go to left-wing forum and you're mocked (though not usually booted) for NOT questioning, well, whoever they're talking about at the time. (Examples are the Free Republic forum and Mike Malloy forums for the right and left wing, respectively.)

That being said, this isn't a political forum so I'll end the side-tracked bit here.

I think it is true that a relationship should be built on mutual respect. Simply caving in all the time, even when I'm factually right, would frustrate the hell out of me to the point of insanity. I'm willing to admit fault when I'm wrong, as if I don't then I don't learn anything. If it's a gray area I'm usually open to being swayed and will be happy to listen to counter-arguments. But if there's a blue car across the street and I say "that car is blue" and she says "no it's red", I'm going to stick to my argument, and I'd expect her to admit fault when she's wrong as well. That's part of, you know, working together to overcome things. Stubbornly holding onto something when you know you're wrong gets you no where.
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Postby Guest » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:57 am

Anonymous wrote:whome:

Actually the progressive left favors criticizing the hell out of their leaders. Go to a right-wing forum and you're kicked out for questioning dear leader. Go to left-wing forum and you're mocked (though not usually booted) for NOT questioning, well, whoever they're talking about at the time. (Examples are the Free Republic forum and Mike Malloy forums for the right and left wing, respectively.)

That being said, this isn't a political forum so I'll end the side-tracked bit here.


No, it's not a political forum. Yet, there is an important gender issue here which very much applies to being a happily married man.

On the right or the left if you, a mere male, question a sexist gender assertion you will be in deep trouble. On both sides of the political spectrum the male is at fault: Period. This "mama is always right" viewpoint is a threat to happiness and marriage and by being such, a threat to society.

Try questioning an assertion that abuse is almost always men abusing women, on either side of the politics and the odds are high you will not only be told you hate women, you will be bounced too. Therein lies the problem. The truth is not wanted on either side: The male experience of life is not wanted either.

Together this ensures more unhappy marriages.

Anonymous wrote:I think it is true that a relationship should be built on mutual respect. Simply caving in all the time, even when I'm factually right, would frustrate the hell out of me to the point of insanity. I'm willing to admit fault when I'm wrong, as if I don't then I don't learn anything. If it's a gray area I'm usually open to being swayed and will be happy to listen to counter-arguments. But if there's a blue car across the street and I say "that car is blue" and she says "no it's red", I'm going to stick to my argument, and I'd expect her to admit fault when she's wrong as well. That's part of, you know, working together to overcome things. Stubbornly holding onto something when you know you're wrong gets you no where.


YES! Yes, a million times yes.

I can see no reason to get into an argument over small things. I don't care whether X said Y or Z. It doesn't matter. I think a lot of marital disharmony comes down to trying to be right when being right simply doesn't matter.

There are times though when it very much matters. Here, the ability to argue politely --and with care and concern for the other-- will help the marriage. Some university prof has been studying marriages for decades. He and his group say that the best predictor of marital strength / weakness is contempt. Show contempt for your partner and the marriage is done for: Keep cpntempt out and the odds favor the marriage.

Arguments are the place contempt most often shows it's ugly head.

whome
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I don't think the being right thing is an issue

Postby debsbrett » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:39 pm

My husband relies on me to keep things together in the household. However, he also believes that he just has to work and then come home and do nothing. He has been brought up that the women do everything in the household, the men do what they want. This is not working out. He complains when I suggest bringing home take home food because this costs money, yet when I make supper and he doesn't want to eat what I've made its okay for him to go out and grab "himself" something to eat. He wants to go to a counsellor, but he doesn't want to pay for it. I was working full time, but I am now a stay at home mom. Our daughter loves it. However, now since I am not working, his money seems to be invaluable. It was okay when I worked because we spent my paycheque and he put his money in the bank. When he gets a day off he does not spend it with the family. Instead he goes and makes extra cash working under the table. Something is wrong with this picture. He complained when I bought myself a computer (my old one had crashed) but then says nothing of the 11,000.00 motorcycle he just had to have. His daughter is 6, and she can walk all over him. He does not discipline her, he says he tries but whenever he tries he says to me, "Deb she won't listen to me". He teases and taunts her constantly, its like I have a third child in the household. I do not call this a definition of marriage. Its also okay for him to go for coffee every single night for the last 2 years with a guy friend that he works with all day, but if I want to go to the gym with a couple of girls I never hear the end of it. Any comments? Sorry for venting, just had to get it all out as I remember it. Thanks for listening!
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Postby ThunderHorse » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:18 pm

Dear Debs Brett,

I feel compelled to welcome you to the forum. I have not read many posts, but yours is the first woman I have read here.

My personal style of posting about problems is to usually ask questions, that will hopefully lead you to answers, or better questions.

Questions are important, according to Tony Robbins, self-help Guru, because the help us focus our thougths and effrots.

I recently searched E-bay for parenting videos. I found some used videos cheap. I have had discussions with my daughter, on strategies for her children. I am intending to watch some more with my wife, so we can better agree on some of our approaches to our challenges. My wife and I took three parenting courses over the years, and the courses helped our marriage.

If you think your husband has poor parenting skills, the question could be: What are the options for improving parenting skills for Husband? What is the least expensive option? What is the easiest option for our time considerations?

Do you have a format for sitting down to discuss differences? I sometimes take my wife out to lunch.

Are there details about the budget sharing arrangement that you would like to change?

If you and your Husband are not agreeing on parenting issues at 6, what is going to happen at 12, 15 and 17? This is a better time to get a better parenting partnership going.

You have mentioned a number of aspects in which your Husband appears wrong. I love to make other people look wrong. However, a marriage and a job need cooperation, beyond criticizing. I try to discipline myself by being alert for my personal attitudes that make others look wrong. It is also called oppositional or rebelious thinking.

It is a good rule for me to always take the approach, at first, that my wife is right. I approach my wife in a problem solving manner, if I think, upon reflection, that she is wrong. I avoid brining up issues of disagreement that are unimportant. I try to give her a way out, to save face, and not appear foolish. My latest endeavor is to try to improve my male flirting skills, to actaully be enchanting about winning.

I'll check back, if you want to fishbone, which I guess means brainstorming
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Want to Resolve Issues Not Argue about Issues

Postby debsbrett » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:20 pm

Thank you thunderhorse for your comments. The parenting videos sound like a great idea and hopefully can help us to reach a mutual agreement on how to discipline our child. I might add here that this is my husband's first child so it is all new to him, however, he was along for the ride with my child when we first met (who at the time was 8) and should have picked up a few pointers along the way. His reluctance to discipline his daughter just by judging from his facial features and reactions when she starts her vocalizing is that he doesn't want to have the hassle of the confrontation with her, even though I have told him that if he does let her have her own way all the time it is only going to get worse. As far as our "budget" arrangements. I am soon to be 46 years old, my husband is 37, I have worked since I have been 14 years old. This is my second marriage. After my first marriage ended, I was a single parent with my son who is now 18. I thought I did not too bad, it was hard and times were tough but we pulled through. I had a successful job when I met my now second husband. He had a job but it wasn't stable. He didn't know from day to day if he would be working or not. I didn't say anything, I supported him, he moved in with me and my son. Five years later he finally got a job that was steady with a steady income. We have been togehter for about 9 years. Just this last March, after 12 years at the same place of employment and due to health issues I resigned from my job. I managed to receive 15 weeks medical unemployment insurance, but now that has ended and it is my turn to rely on my husband. Throughout our whole being together, it seems my cheques were put to bills, groceries, etc., while his contribution was 1300.00 per month which he felt was his share. I am enjoying my time off of work, at this point I don't know if I am ready to go back to work if I am emotionally stable enough. I had support from my husband, but now with no cash flow he is not as supportive as he once was. I am enjoying the time off to spend with our daughter, to help nurture her, something I was not able to do with my son. Staying home also saves us about 500.00 a month in childcare. I have talked with my brother and he told me that if he made 120,000 a year like my husband does there is no way that he would have his wife work. My father has worked all his life while my mother has been a stay at home mom. Neither my brother nor my father demanded or expected any money from their significant other. I don't understand where my husband is coming from. While I have always worked, I have also done all the cooking, cleaning, paying bills and child rearing while working. Now that I am not working I have more time to do all of the same things I was doing before, but am not as stressed out...or am I? Regarding our discussions...my husband does not hear what I am trying to say, and when he talks he gets off topic and starts talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. I am tired of arguing, I am getting to the point where I just want to be left alone. And I have also told him time and again, it is not good to talk in front of our daughter, I won't talk to him in front of our daughter. We yelled at each other one time for a one hour car trip, non stop. That is not healthy. I cannot handle this. Yesterday, I told my husband that I felt counselling was our best option if we wanted to save this marriage because we need someone to mediate. But am really wondering about therapy after reading some of the posts in here as well, sounds like a lot of therapists are just after the cash cow. So maybe videos would also be a start. Since I mentioned to my husband that we needed to do something yesterday, he has softened up a bit and has actually tried to talk with me without flying off the handle. This has helped mellow me out instead of always feeling like a cat backed into a corner. He even spent time after supper playing with our daughter in the backyard instead of watching tv or falling asleep. I don't think she would be as rebellious as she is if he started to pay more attention to her and spend more time with her. I think we all would be more attentive and cooperative if we all started to spend more time together as a family. My husband works like there is no tomorrow. I told him that the house will always be there, but the kids grow up. He is missing their growing up and they are mad at him for that. So I guess, that is my story in a nutshell. I am far from perfect too, because I know that there are two sides to every story, but I cannot handle take and no give. A marriage is not 50-50 from each person...each person has to give 100 percent of their all, without that there is nothing. Thanks for listening.
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Re: Who's right?

Postby Patriarch Verlch » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:15 pm

Tom C. wrote:Remember one thing. The women is ultimately always right, no matter
how many facts one can place in front of her. Facts are not
relevant. It's her "feelings" that rule her every thought and
action.

Deal with it or don’t get married. (Tom C., 40, married 14 years)




Women act like they like effeminate men, but deep down, they want a man to stand up to them, to throw his weight around.

With 75% of women being the ones to walk away from divorce, and the majority of marriages are like what you described, something isn't working pal!!!

Clearly the man is the head of the house, and if a woman doesn't submit to that, don't marry her!!!
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Echo Tom and Pat

Postby hotwired » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:05 am

HI All!
I'd like to share what I learned in the Sterling Men's Weekend as well as had "confirmed" in my marriage. I'll use a "list" format to keep my thoughts straight.

1. Women INDEED do like a strong man. Thousands of years of evolution haven't destroyed the need for the female of almost ALL warm blooded species including us to know that the male of the den is strong and will protect us. So ... (the underlying female cellular logic) if the male can be pushed around by little old ME, what's going to happen when a big bad lion comes into camp. Will he have the b*lls to protect his family? Hence women test us. If we can hold this context, their testing will take on more of a "divine" glow rather than incessant b****ing as we often hold it! (incidentally I realize many of you won't know what I'm talking about here because women test in such a wide range, many hardly at all).

2. So when do you "stand up and take out your sword and gnash your teeth?". When she violates or threatens your "terms". Your terms define who you are as a man. You would have them whether you were married or not, single or not, and they are the 2-5 things you'd die for (or nearly so), and definitely the things you'd walk away for. For me, for example, I am a guitar player and that's my "core". I will always play guitar, I may or may not be in a band, but when and if I do, it's gonna happen. Period. She knows this. It's what turned her on about me most when we met. I treat others like I'd want to be treated and I run my businesses the same way. I don't "pad" or use materials I bought for another job, etc. She often makes suggestions like, hey if you only use 3 xxxx at Smith's job and you bought 5, bring 2 home to us. I sure will, but I'm not gonna charge Smith for em!! I always do what's best for my family and the buck stops with me cu's Im the man of the house. The mother of my daughter and I are not married. I am marreid and my wife is a great step mom. Lots of friction between the two. I listen to my wife, but I always make the final call. I am often wrong!! I don't care. The buck stops here and it's not a responsibility I can "share" with my wife.

3. Know what your territory is and stay the &@#*! out of hers! The kitchen is my wife's. I do much of the cooking too, but I'm clear that I'm "borrowing" her kitchen. I get to decorate my office and bathroom. Otherwise Im a guest in HER house. I have my office and garage. The rest is hers. I make suggestions when she asks, otherwise I do my best to stay out. My daughter: What she is taught spiritually is my territory. Everything else my wife loves to handle. (hair, clothes, etc.) - She and I handle discipline together, and you guessed it ... that's where most of our friction comes from!! We are great with money, and tha'ts the other "co" territory. My 2 businesses are MY territory. She helps but she knows not to stick her hand in the cage cus' she might get bit! In writing this I see I am slipping with waht I believe in for discipline and I need to share that with my wife in a very loving manner.

So that's it! Mama is always right ... it can be taken many ways. I think that if taken in the context in what I've written above (mama is always right unless it violates my terms as a man) it is quite valid. She will respect you if you defend your terms like a warrior. She WILL begin to treat you as a son if you allow her to just be right about everything.
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Yes

Postby Patriarch Verlch » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:05 pm

The House is the woman's, and the World is the mans.

Ask a woman what she cares about most, sentimentally, and it will be something in the house.

On the subject of why our leaders thought it was best to allow women to vote? Because they knew women would tend to be more liberal, easily be influenced by feminism in putting them to work outside the home, and that they would vote for big government for security.

Women tend to vote for the best looking candidate regardless of the issues.

To prove my point, ask the majority of women what is going on in world events, not only will they not care, they will not know.

Let men do what men do best, protecting our borders from destruction and domination!!! Why empower the weakest amongst us, if strength is our ultimate goal?
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Postby Patriarch Verlch » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:10 pm

ThunderHorse wrote:Dear Debs Brett,

I feel compelled to welcome you to the forum. I have not read many posts, but yours is the first woman I have read here.

My personal style of posting about problems is to usually ask questions, that will hopefully lead you to answers, or better questions.

Questions are important, according to Tony Robbins, self-help Guru, because the help us focus our thougths and effrots.

I recently searched E-bay for parenting videos. I found some used videos cheap. I have had discussions with my daughter, on strategies for her children. I am intending to watch some more with my wife, so we can better agree on some of our approaches to our challenges. My wife and I took three parenting courses over the years, and the courses helped our marriage.

If you think your husband has poor parenting skills, the question could be: What are the options for improving parenting skills for Husband? What is the least expensive option? What is the easiest option for our time considerations?

Do you have a format for sitting down to discuss differences? I sometimes take my wife out to lunch.

Are there details about the budget sharing arrangement that you would like to change?

If you and your Husband are not agreeing on parenting issues at 6, what is going to happen at 12, 15 and 17? This is a better time to get a better parenting partnership going.

You have mentioned a number of aspects in which your Husband appears wrong. I love to make other people look wrong. However, a marriage and a job need cooperation, beyond criticizing. I try to discipline myself by being alert for my personal attitudes that make others look wrong. It is also called oppositional or rebelious thinking.

It is a good rule for me to always take the approach, at first, that my wife is right. I approach my wife in a problem solving manner, if I think, upon reflection, that she is wrong. I avoid brining up issues of disagreement that are unimportant. I try to give her a way out, to save face, and not appear foolish. My latest endeavor is to try to improve my male flirting skills, to actaully be enchanting about winning.

I'll check back, if you want to fishbone, which I guess means brainstorming


Darling, men die a full 7 years before women from working ourselves to death. We also work more at our jobs, most men work over 50 hours a week, whereas women work 36 hours.

American women do the least amount of housework in the world. Usually only 36 minutes a week. Certainly you could work as much as your husband and put in just half of the extra hours that he works.

As most men pay the majority of the bills. His money because "our" money and her money becomes her money.

If you want a strong home you will clean the little things the way you want it, and he will move the things you can't move. The couch, fixing the cars, etc.

Feminism isn't working, it is crippling our nation. Producing not only fatherless children, but illegitimate, yeah, these children do not even have a father, they don't know who their father is.

If building a weak nation full of weak fatherless sissy's than, you are doing your job!!!
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