no attempt at aiming to please

Postby elizacol » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:19 pm

Can you be more specific? What are you stewing about? (exactly)

I may have some advice to offer, but you need to be more specific.
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Postby elizacol » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:29 pm

Ok...I understand where you are coming from! My husband
became involved w/someone else too, emotionally, not sexually.

It has been exactly a year since it all began. The worst year
of my life. HOWEVER, I have grown because of it and bit
by bit I think our relationship has as well. And I say this not
knowing for sure if his emotional attachment to her is
even over. I found a note the other day that told me it
wasn't, but...more on me later. What I do know is that I
am a better person and wife because of what my husband
did. So, if I had to find a silver lining, that is it.

There is so much I want to say, so this may come out jumbled.

1st-Have you been to the divorce busters website? It is a great place
to visit, read, and converse...
as if the book. I would definitely recommend one or the other
or both. GO there, if you haven't.

2nd-I want to give you 2 quotes that I hung on my bathroom mirror early
on in this whole ordeal (yes, I call it an ordeal, that's how I view
it) :?

The first is: "Be the change you want to see in the world"

The 2nd is: "Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of
changing himself"

Like you, I kept looking for my husband to change his ways, especially because he had crossed the line with his involvement with another woman. I really felt he 'owed' me something for my pain. Well, of course, that was like asking for the moon. Fact of the matter is, he wasn't in a place where he COULD give me what I needed. Nothing I did or could do would change that. It came down to my realizing that I couldn't control or change him. I could only control and change myself.

I had to acknowledge my role in his turning to someone else, painful as that was, and do what I could to make amends for it. Only then could I even expect him to do the same. Doesn't sound fair. But, my marriage was on the line and I didn't want it destroyed because we both made foolish mistakes along the way.

So, I listened when he told me that he felt unappreciated, much as it hurt. I listened when he told me he felt I gave him no credit, much as it hurt. I listened, listened, listened. And I learned. I began to do things I should have been doing all along. I became a better wife for my husband. And though I believe I wasn't *that* bad of a wife, somewhere along the line, his needs hadn't been met.

I began making the changes in myself that I wanted to see in him. The kindness, the respect, the gentleness, the spontanaity, etc. etc. etc.

Like I said, it has taken a full year for me to *see* a bit of a hint of change in him. And guess what? For the 1st time in a year, I saw a lurch of a change in him this past week. After a YEAR of my doing what I had to do and wanted to do for our marriage. I never thought I'd make it a year, at times the pain of his involvement with her (mind you...it was still going on during this year) about killed me. However, my marriage and my family and my love for him were always at the forefront of my mind.

So, to get to you, YES you are entitled to change on his part. HE has a lot to do, as well, with regards to making amends for his affair. My husband has yet to get there, either. He is just now taking real steps towards ME, much less towards making amends for his role in the past year. I know
it takes time and until he is ready, he can't do it. I can't force it.

Basically, someone has to take the 1st step. Are you willing? You don't have to be. You could continue with the way things are. You could leave him. You could kick him out. Is your marriage worth fighting for? Worth making changes for? Worth making better than it was before?

He is hiding right now behind his 'activities'. Let him, but at the same time, start making small changes. If you aren't sure what, either ask, or get the book Divorce Busting (Busters?).

I DO understand where you are coming from and I DO understand your wanting him to make the changes. Just understand you can't control his changes, you can only control your own.

I hope this doesn't sound like I believe your H should just skate. I don't.

I, even today, am not sure what the future holds for my marriage. If my H were to never make that step towards me or towards our marriage or towards making amends, then I certainly wouldn't stay. I never put a time frame on it, but knew that I wouldn't live long-term w/someone who could never give me what I was giving in return. At the same time, I didn't dwell on it (the time-frame or the future). I just did my thing, knowing that the day would come when I either 1) knew in my heart that he wasn't capable and/or I needed it sooner than he could give it or 2) I began to see small changes that told me he, too, was beginning to try in our marriage.

Like I said, just this past week, after a year of hell, I began to see it.

Let me know if I can be of anymore help! I do feel for you and wouldn't wish an affair on my worst enemy!
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Postby elizacol » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:23 pm

I think I read somewhere that the infidelity took place 2 years ago. Is
that right?

So, for the 1st week or so after you found out, you were cold and distant and contemplating leaving?

Then, when you decided to stay/work on it, that is when he became cold and distant?

I'm just trying to put the pieces together.

How much have you talked about this? His cheating? Your feelings? What happened AFTER, both the week after, and the next few months?

Have you ever sat down w/him and explained your week long decision to contemplate your options? Has he ever explained to you WHY after saying he wanted to make it up to you, he never did?

As for wanting a 2nd chance (your thoughts about him doing it again so you can redo what you did), I think you know you really don't want that. The pain would be even worse the 2nd time around and I wonder if you would really *want* to stay if that were to happen.

Anyway...get the divorce busters book. It will give you much advice on the small steps you can take. You say you try, but don't see anything or don't get recognition. It isn't a short-term process, though. Remember, I tried for a YEAR before I saw any real discernable changes.

I wish I could tell you what would magically work, but each relationship is different.

Only you know:

1) if you can live for the rest of your marriage w/the knowledge that he made a mistake (don't we all...just on different levels).

2) if you can forgive him for his mistake (you won't ever forget, but can you forgive his mistake?)

3) how long you want to try to make those changes that show him you are committed to making your marriage work and that you do love him, faults and all.

4) how long you can go w/out seeing any change in him.

5) how easy it would be for you to initiate a separation or a divorce.

Like you said, no one can answer those questions for you. It's tough, because right now, it all lies on your shoulders. Both the trying and the quitting outright altogether. You have to decide which you want more, and/or which would be the more difficult to do.

I think I read in another post that you are going to counseling. You will find out a lot there about your husband's true feelings about your marriage and his willingness to try or not try. Our counselor wasn't great (other than the fact that he was NOT a proponent of divorce), but I did learn a lot about my husband and his desire to TRY to make our marriage work.

We communicated ALOT during this period. Even when I didn't want to hear what he had to say. I listened w/out judgement. Even when we weren't necessarily getting along, I set aside time weekly to communicate. Not for me, always, but for him, too.

So, every so often, ask him what's on his mind. What's going thru it? Allow him to open up so you can learn what his motivations are for sticking around, yet not trying to make it work w/you. Until you know
those motivations, you won't have anything to work with.

Anyway, I will let you digest this. Sorry I am so wordy. It's my nature.

:)
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Postby weedenwife » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:30 am

yeah thanks for your input. i think this is just something personal i might have to deal with. i will try the ook you mentioned htough. i'm always into reading things.
i have to say though i don't like the answer i gave myself to your questions. i need to decide sooner than later what direction we're headed in cause i'm growing more and more bitter day by day!
________
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Last edited by weedenwife on Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby elizacol » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:47 pm

I understand the bitterness! Especially when he is making no effort to make amends for his wrong-doing. No one would blame you if you told him to screw himself and left him. Most would understand. Infidelity SO crosses the line (gee-is that an understatement!)

Don't rush your decision. Just take it day by day and in the meantime, mentally and physically prepare yourself for the future. Do things FOR yourself. Build yourself up and try to heal.

You can't go around this...you can only go through it.
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Postby weedenwife » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:50 pm

thanks for the support.
________
Last edited by weedenwife on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:54 pm

Dear Weeden Wife,

Marriage is partly compromise.

You have a list of things that you would lke your Husband to change. I try to keep a list of things I want my wife to change, and I try to keep a list of what che wants changed. I try to compare lists periodically, to see if ther are any compromises we can think of, so as to fulfill each other's dreams and desires.

Forgiveness has degrees. True forgiveness is completely forgetting.

Attonement can be a component of forgiveness.

A sprial comes to mind, that he cheated because he was not getting his desires met in the marriage, now you feel that he owes you Attonement, which means that Husband should get less of what he desires, so he is less served by the marriage, than before he cheated.


Are there any issues that could be discussed for better compromises?
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Postby tlescak » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:46 pm

elizacol-

Do you have a book out? If not you should. :D (yes, it's a compliment, please accept it as such)
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Postby elizacol » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:00 pm

:P

You made my day.

I'm not an author, just someone who went through
hell and is just now coming out on the other side...
and better for it, I might add.

Maybe someday, who knows.

I am glad I was open to learning
and growing over the course of the past year.

A year ago, you wouldn't have found
me able to 'understand', much less
explain to myself or others, what needs to take place
in a marriage.

Slowly, I am 'getting' it.

Thank you for your compliment.
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Postby donnyb » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:02 am

Sometimes I wonder where all the good women are; obviously on this post. Switch the tables around; wife won't attempt to be intimate. Doesn't like me spending an hour or more caressing, teasing, and flirting with her. Asserts any compliment from me is a sexual advance. ETC...
When we married, I gave my life to my wife; now it seems she is taking it from me without giving. Slight problem.
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Postby elizacol » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:46 am

donnyb wrote:Sometimes I wonder where all the good women are; obviously on this post.


I don't quite get that statement....

As for your wife. I hope she comes to realize what she is missing. It is amazing what we women are missing out on by rebuffing (is that a word?) our spouses advances.

Face it, we are slow learners, most of us. Just like men are slow learners in other areas.

I, too, used to take every token of affection as a sexual advance. Most of the times, it was, though; I was like your wife and didn't respond as often as I should have. Therefore, everytime he came near me, it was sexual because those were his feelings that weren't being met! Once I started responding, I realized just what I was missing out on.

In another thread, I posted about ways this other man might succeed in getting his wife more interested. I can't remember what thread, but speaking as a woman, they sure worked for me! Try to find it and try some of them.

Talk about a change...I never rebuff my husband now. Last night, it was past midnight, I was dead tired after working all day and into the evening. He wanted to 'get close' and it was taking me awhile to warm up. He finally said, "If you are too tired..." and I immediately realized that it didn't matter if I was tired. What mattered is that my husband wanted to get close to me and I told him, "No, I did that enough when we were younger". We both went to sleep happy.

It took almost losing him (not because of a lack of sex, as I didn't rebuff him all of the time...seriously!) to make me realize that he deserved more than I was giving him, not just sexually, but emotionally, as well. (It was the emotional part I wasn't very good at).

Sadly, many women don't realize it until it is too late.

I have 2 options you might want to try (aside from checking out that other thread)

1) Be honest with her about how it makes you feel when she doesn't respond. Use the wording you used in this post. Don't be afraid to show how hurt you are. I think many men are afraid to show their true feelings of sadness and pain, so we don't understand that men, too, feel deep sorrow. They just don't show it. SHOW it! When my husband finally started being open about his feelings and SHOWING me, I realized the depth of his pain. I didn't think he was capable of such pain because he never showed me.

2) Check out Dr. Laura's book (even if you aren't a fan) The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. She does a fantastic job of explaining in a clear manner just how men feel about sex and how the importance of it goes beyond the release. I didn't 'get' it until I read that section of her book.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
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Postby happy in PA » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:01 pm

Just read this thread, Elizcol, you don't know how right you are about your point about the importance of sex for a man going beyond the release. At least for me. I tried for years to get my wife to understand that she made me feel needed. Needed for a paycheck, needed for my work around the house, needed as a father to our children, but not desired. It was crushing, debilitating to go day after day feeling that way.

Of course my wife's feeling was that she was desired and not needed. I can do anything around a house that a woman can, and better than most woman. As the oldest of a large family of sons, my mother made sure I was self-sufficient in that area.

Now in our 50's she does make me feel desired. Last night as we were relaxing together together I asked her what she was thinking. She said, "My skin's a little dry". Doesn't sound like much does it? But it told me that she wanted me to put some lotion on her, to touch her, to caress her, that I was in fact desired. I believe I have learned to make her feel needed as well as desired. I know that she is more grateful for the fact that she is still desired than she ever was at 30.

I wish it hadn't taken us almost 30-years to get here, but I am grateful for the couple years that we have spent here and the years we have ahead us.
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Postby elizacol » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:00 pm

You can thank Dr. Laura for that wise little tidbit I learned. She 'gets' it....and her book is one I plan on giving to every young woman I know, as a wedding gift. The title, along with her views, have turned many women off, but she does offer some sound advice...to those who are open to hearing it. For the men, I plan to give Scott's book, The Secrets of Happily Married Men.

Thankfully, I finally get it, too. It only took me 20 years.

Like you, I am so grateful for where we are in our marriage right now. Still some tough spots to get through, but I know we are on our way and are on the same path. Despite the issues still to be worked through, I am confident each and every day that my husband knows he is wanted and desired; and our sex life has never been better. Who knew that sex after 20 years of marriage could be so great?

It's nice talking with someone who has travelled a similar path and who stuck it out and came out better for it. I hate the fact that over 1/2 of marriages end in divorce. Your marriage (30 years?) and mine (20 years) offer proof that marriages can last (and be fulfilling!), in this day and age, despite hard times along the way.
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Postby happy in PA » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:45 pm

If you had told me at age 22 that the best sex of my married life would come after age 50 I probably would have laughed at you.....unless I believed you, then I would have cried. But it is true.

The reality though is that this is only because the total relationship with my wife is better than it has ever been. After almost 33-years we finally understand one another. We finally know how to deal with one another and accept one another's flaws while we cherish each other's strengths.

My wife loves me. She loves our children. She knows that my father and brothers accept her and love her more than her own brothers and she returns that love. She also can be a self-centered pain-in-the rump. But she is my pain-in-the-rump and I committed to her years ago and I will go to my grave committed to her and her happiness. And I know that the same is true for her.

God Bless you as you and your husband continue your travel on the pot-holed road that is married life.
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Re: no attempt at aiming to please

Postby juko » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:13 pm

weedenwife wrote:what if your husband doens't aim to please period?
I read my book on how to be a 'good wife' and how come when someone reccommends a book like this one for him to read, he laughs about it? and acts like he's above it and doens' t need to do anything to fix our marriage, which in my opinion is redundant and quickly turning quite miserable. what am i supposed to do? read the damn book myself and highlight the necassary areas? i think it's disgusting that i'd have to do that.
is our marriage so bad that he's to coward to leave or am i supposed to stew over this every day as long as we live?


You both are cowards if you are both unhappy in the marriage and are still together. Don't blame him because he does not want to read those types of books. Most men don't for what ever reason. You should read a book for yourself to receive truth, understanding, and fulfillment. You will have to connect with him in another way w/o resentment. If he is not open to working on the marriage in another mutually agreed upon way, then you have your answer: He's not interested. Then you are the coward if you stay.
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