A question for the men

[elizacol]

Thunderhorse,

The Eggerichs approach is new to me (never heard of it, actually), so I'm going to hold off on responding.

You've piqued my curiosity, so I am off to do a web search.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I admire your dedication and committment to your marriage, better understanding your wife, and being willing to forge ahead when things seem difficult.

Elizacol

[ThunderHorse]

Dear Elizacol,

Let me know what you think.

I challenged one Eggerichs assumption that women will become more willing to give respect to men, once the discover respect is important to men.

In reality, I believe, there are a number of motivating factors that make it more convenient for women to ignore the concept of respect for a man. Most basic is winning arguments. It is almost always easier to win an argument with a man if the woman throws in some humiliation. Winning arguments is a basic human drive, even for women.

[rogersje]

For me, the top three are:

1. I wished my wife tried to look at issues from many prospectives than just her own, assuming that she is always right and that I am always wrong.

2. I wished that my wife would agree that marriage takes two to make it through, that sometimes I will carry us, sometimes she will carry us and sometimes we will carry each other, but at all times, God is carrying us both.

3. I wished that my wife could see that neutral, non-threatening communication works better than shrill, strident, accusatory, harsh words. That rather than let an issue fester so much that when you finally try to deal with it you are so emotional, that it is better to talk about it calmly right away.

I have a few more, but these will suffice.

[rogersje]

I found your reference to your wife's condemnation interesting. In the scriptures, we are told we all have to make our own way to God, so whenever a spouse seeks to condem or judge another spouse regarding their walk with God, I would try to refer them to these scriptures. In the end, it will be each of us, individually, standing before judgement, and your spouse will NOT be there to plead your case for you.

[redsox07]

1. When I say you are hostile, I'm not saying it for the sake of saying it. I wish my wife would look into the mirror at her herself. I'm not the only one that has noted it!

2. Allow me to make mistakes. You can't be perfect all of the time!

3. You give respect, you get respect. Period.

[juko]

Nocruelty,

Whew! That's a tough one. I feel for you, as I know how difficult it can be to live with someone whose self-esteem is low. Because that sounds like the problem...low self-esteem. Would you agree with that?

I wish I had more advice for you. I know with my H, I have to choose my words carefully, as he also takes things very personally. This stems from his childhood and his feeling of lack of worth.

It helps me to remember that is 'issues' stem from his upbringing. Doesn't make it easier to take, but easier to understand.

Does your wife have issues from her childhood that might be causing this low self-esteem?

As I read through all the threads I think that even the concept of "aiming to please" your wife is topic that may only be interesting to certain men. How often do you now hear a woman aiming to please her man these days? Many married men aim to please only because that is what most American women expect us to want to do unilaterally or otherwise be fallen to the wrath. Do women have real power or have we given them the right to exert power because we see them as the subordinate in the relationship and therefore deserve more provisions? Do the really powerful, confident and wise husbands play the game and aim to please, exerting their power more covertly and on rare occasions?

[Mr. Ed]

Nocruelty,

Whew! That's a tough one. I feel for you, as I know how difficult it can be to live with someone whose self-esteem is low. Because that sounds like the problem...low self-esteem. Would you agree with that?

I wish I had more advice for you. I know with my H, I have to choose my words carefully, as he also takes things very personally. This stems from his childhood and his feeling of lack of worth.

It helps me to remember that is 'issues' stem from his upbringing. Doesn't make it easier to take, but easier to understand.

Does your wife have issues from her childhood that might be causing this low self-esteem?

As I read through all the threads I think that even the concept of "aiming to please" your wife is topic that may only be interesting to certain men. How often do you now hear a woman aiming to please her man these days? Many married men aim to please only because that is what most American women expect us to want to do unilaterally or otherwise be fallen to the wrath. Do women have real power or have we given them the right to exert power because we see them as the subordinate in the relationship and therefore deserve more provisions? Do the really powerful, confident and wise husbands play the game and aim to please, exerting their power more covertly and on rare occasions?

Many married men aim to please as a survival skill. With no-fault divorce laws, a discontented wife, whether her injustices be real or perceived, can destroy the marriage and her husband's finances on a whim. Men are at a disadvantage.

The matter is further complicated by a culture that encourages women to be immature, materialistic, and exceedingly selfish.

The average husband is in a true dilemma: If he does anything to knock his wife off her pedestal in his efforts to quell the tantrums, she might walk out. If he becomes her doormat, she'll lose what little respect she had for him that remained, she'll lose interest, and she might walk out.

There is truly no rational incentive, in this era of casual sex and common cohabitation, for a man to make the marriage commitment.

We old-fashioned guys have but one resort: Christianity.

Go to church. Give your heart to God. Read the bible. When the time comes to look for a wife, look for a girl that exhibits the fruits of the spirit:

Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

longsuffering means patient.

Watch how her mother treats her father. That is another excellent clue.

If you want a happy marriage, you must first prepare yourself to be a Christian husband, and that means prepare your heart to love your wife as Christ loved the church, meaning, sacrificially.

How do you know if your love is proper?

I Corinthians 13:4-7 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

The "really powerful, confident and wise" husbands LEAD their families in love. They earn their wives' respect, honor, and admiration through their good decisions and leadership.

There exists a certain minimum threshold of Christian understanding for a girl, below which no man, no matter how pure his heart, can lead her. So choose carefully, fellows. Find a girl who has been trained to deny herself, make sacrifice, and appreciate other people. Train yourself to do likewise. All the rest is just details.

[moc]

Since this forum is mainly for men, I pose a question to you. Perhaps the women reading here might gain some useful insight.

Here's my question:

If you could ask your wife or sig. other to do or change 3 things that would make you happier, what would they be?

Patriarch...I know your answer will be more sex. Ok. Got it. Now, open your mind and entertain some other thoughts.

Life, after all, is multifaceted. Even the horniest (your word, not mine) men need more from life than sex.

If all was well in the marriage camp right now I am assuming is the questioning here is:

1. If the wife has specific problems with me, sit me down, face to face, alone (table, bed, doesn't matter) and say in specific words the problems they have and what affects it is taking on them and what the consequences of my actions are if I do not change. I know I must do a better job of interpreting and listening but, from time to time, come to my world of thinking.

2. Take compliments as being sincere and true, not just to get sex, and help me feel like my compliment meant something to you even though you may have a bit of low self esteem. Example: H (Honey, I love the way your hair whisps below your ear lobes, its very sexy). W (Ah, my hair makes me look fat).

3. Appreciation with love, say it, show it, even in front of others. I need ego boosts as ThunderHorse said. I may not be close to perfect, but appreciate my efforts and not necessarily the results as my wife would have seen them exactly. Example: I get this one when I attempt to clean the house, its not how she does it even though I give my biggest effort.

[YIZZLE]

Since this forum is mainly for men, I pose a question to you. Perhaps the women reading here might gain some useful insight.

Here's my question:

If you could ask your wife or sig. other to do or change 3 things that would make you happier, what would they be?

Patriarch...I know your answer will be more sex. Ok. Got it. Now, open your mind and entertain some other thoughts.

Life, after all, is multifaceted. Even the horniest (your word, not mine) men need more from life than sex.

1. Initiate sex more
2. Communicate
3. Do more things together

[afterthought]

[quote="elizacol"]:

If you could ask your wife or sig. other to do or change 3 things that would make you happier, what would they be?

1) Don't discuss personal matters with others in front of me, especially not in front of my friends or clients

2)Don't put me down or criticize me in front of others

3) Stop demeaning me by interrupting me when I am speaking, or making light of something that I think is very importatn.

[elizacol]

I want to thank all who replied here. I come back often and reread the perspective's of the men who posted. As we all know, life sometimes gets in the way of what's important....meeting the needs of our spouse and making them happy. This thread is always a great reminder of that.

[matthewk]

Ok, these come from things I miss the most after 25 years of marriage...

1. Desire me, want me, have sex with me all day/night long (it's been 3 years)

2. uh...do I need to write another? Seriously, a distant #2 would be to admit she was wrong and apologize, about anything. I can't remember the last time she admitted she was wrong. Since then I've done so about 11,243 times.

3. Be spontaneous and whimsical (she complains I am). Everything has to be deliberate, planned WEEKS ahead and must have a purpose [u]and[/u] benefit the children.

4. Since I'm on a roll...value me more that our children (other way around now, BIG time)

Other than that, we're perfect.

Matthewk

[Scott Haltzman]

Hi Matt,
Thanks for joining the Forum. I think you have lots of good insights. I look forward to following your thoughts.
Tolstoy wrote, in Anna Karinina, "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way"
Ironically, though, I have found the opposite. Happy marriages are all different in how they do it, but the things that bring unhappiness to marriage (like the 4 things you list) are SO COMMON, especially in the context of men's complains about wives.
Sometimes I think it helps for other men to just read the things that concern you, so they can say, "hey, I'm not alone." I also think it's important to women to understand that their husbands are neither perverted nor idiotic; it's just that they would like to find some of what they had when they were dating, and get some of it back.
Of course, women would also like to get back the man they knew during courtship, which is the main thrust of "The Secrets of Happily Married Men."