I need help

I need help

Postby Mr. Spock » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:01 pm

I’m 33, my wife is 29. I have known her for 5 years and we are married since 2.5 years. We started off with a long distance relationship, seeing each other maybe 3 times a year for a few weeks. In between we skyped almost daily. Considering the distance it went well until we got married and moved together. Shortly before I lost my new job and even though I found another job a few months later it had an impact on my sex drive for over a year (which I did not realize until a few months ago). She gave up basically her whole life (work, family, friends) to come to me. In return I unconsciously made almost every mistake imaginable - I did not meet her needs, I did not make her feel special or treated her like a woman, I did not initiate sex.

Not surprisingly, just a few months after being married she started to have more or less frequent emotional outbreaks/breakdowns when she would start crying and tell me why she is not feeling well. In the beginning she was rather vague so I did not realize that I was doing this to her and not the new environment as I suspected.

She then moved to another city to pursue her studies which she had given up years earlier and finally wanted to get a degree and I fully supported her with that. We now see each other once a month for a long weekend and skype daily. I assumed having something to do would make things better for her but it only lasted for a few weeks. She then became very direct that I was the main reason for her problems and listed my shortcomings and major mistakes and what I had to do to fix it: make her feel special and treat her like a woman. It was a shock when she considered divorce as an option and that she was losing her feelings for me.

I thought I understood but in reality I didn’t and I finally only got it a few months later what I really did to her. She said she lost her self confidence and thought she was ugly and fat (which she wasn’t, although she gained some weight during that time). She even thought I was gay as I did not initiate any sex with her. It actually affected her health. It broke my heart when I realized what I had done to her and I promised I would change and fix our marriage.

In the meantime I got Dr. Haltzman’s book and it helped me understand things better. However, she firmly believes that if you really love someone you don’t need a book to tell you how to treat that person. So, everytime I tell her how beautiful she is, she thinks I’m forced to say it and will not believe me. (Believe me she is beautiful). I’m not very good in expressing my emotions, I mostly hide or surpress them - sometimes she calls me Mr. Spock - it’s fitting actually. So I find myself regularly in the situation that she simply refuses to believe me when I tell her how I feel about her as she thinks I am forced to say it and do not really mean it. (From time to time when I find the right moment to compliment her, she actually does believe me but it does not happen very often.)

She will graduate in June and then come back to me. She expects that it will drive her crazy then as things have not improved. We planned to have a baby this year but she is very stressed out due to pressure from school, my inability to fix our marriage, the thought of having a baby. We agree that it would be better to have a baby only after we managed to fix our marriage but she is sure I would treat it like I treated her in the beginning. It is hard to convince her that I would not do that same mistake again, especially not with our baby. It also shows that even though I meet her (non-emotional) needs now, she is very sceptical about me being able to change and regularly reminds me of my past mistakes.

She now thinks that she married the wrong guy and it would be better for her to be single. She said she was never happy while we were married (which sadly is true) and lost her feelings for me. A while ago she said the only reason she is still together with me is to give me a chance. I feel she will not wait much longer. Truth is, I did so many things wrong in the beginning of our marriage and I was plain stupid in not realizing how to treat my wife the way she deserves and now I keep telling her that I will change and fix things and even though I try (at least I think so) months pass without any real change, and I don’t know what else to do. I feel like a hamster in a wheel, running but not moving forward.

Last week when I was visiting her I had some hope as she said afterwards that this time I did everything right but she wasn’t sure if she still loves me. She said she forced herself to get her feelings back but it did not work. Now a week later, she says nothing will ever change, I will never change and it would be better for her to be single instead. I love her so much and do not want to lose her and I really want this marriage to work but I don’t know what to do. I mean she told me what exactly I did wrong and what I need to do to fix it but it seems I’m not making any progress. I partially blame it on the distance but she argues that before we got married, distance was not a problem which is true.

She is right and I know it. While things usually return to ‘normal’ after a few days I’m afraid that it will not be long until they won’t and she will leave. I think I’m confident that I can make her feel special when we are together but what can I do to make her feel special from a distance without appearing to work a checklist but to make it come from the heart? Or am I still missing the point and need to do something else?
Mr. Spock
 
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Postby ThunderHorse » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:12 pm

Why can't y let her vent 15 minutes per a day on the phone? Why are you concerned wtih understanding her complaints about you? Do you question her what she means about her complaints? What phrases do you use to encourange unconditional venting?
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Postby socialdistortion » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:04 am

Dear Dr. Spock,

It sounds like you have both had a hard time adjusting to the first few years of marriage after a whirlwind long distance romance. Halzman says, “The first year of marriage is when the haze of romance and lust lifts, and reality begins to set in. Instead of spending time together doing fun things, couples start facing the reality of life. Newlyweds are often confronted with differences that seemed unimportant or non-existent when they were dating, but become front and center after marriage.” He gives these long-term fixes for some of the most common problems newlyweds face-

DEFINING ROLES
Prior to marriage, couples often assume that the other will take on certain roles in the relationship (i.e. breadwinner, bill payer, housecleaner, nurse, mechanic, etc.). But most of the time, newlyweds are over idealistic and neglect to discuss these expectations.

Solution: Sit down to review and negotiate household roles. Focus first on how you can help, not on how your partner is letting you down!

MONEY MATTERS
Money is a very sensitive topic and a couple’s attitudes towards household finances need to be aligned. If families don't define their core values, money ends up being spent carelessly and irresponsibly. More often than not, couples resort to blaming each other for financial mishaps because they aren’t on the same page when it comes to handling money.

Solution: Define your values. What do you both care about spending money on the most (i.e. vacations, entertainment, spirituality, etc.)? Once you lay that out on the table, you can better know how to budget your money.

IN-LAWS
Getting married means redefining boundaries and being a life partner with someone new involves cutting the umbilical cord. Parents often have a more difficult time with this than the children they are marrying off, and want to stay connected in ways that can disrupt the marriage.

Solution: You and your partner need to decide among yourselves how much parental input you want and need to maintain respect and then you need set boundaries with your parents. Each child is responsible for communicating the message to their own family

RECREATION TIME
While dating, it was okay to watch football all day Sunday and shopping trips were a delightful way to spend the day together. But after couples bond for life, the way they spend time together can be a source of conflict.

Solution: Building a relationship together requires you to respect the fact that your partner has individual needs. Focus on appreciating the things that he or she loves as a way to help define your partner's uniqueness. Agree that if one (or the other) is stuck doing an "unenjoyable" activity that the focus will be on spending time together, not on the activity itself. After all, when you were dating, it didn't matter what you did, as long as you did it together. Remember to keep balance, though — each partner should have his or her own share of fun time.

Conclusion-
As you read each suggestion you quickly see a ‘3D’ pattern in Haltzman’s advice - ‘Discuss, Define and Decide’. Perhaps you and your wife should spend more time discussing and defining what you expect from one another and what you both want out of the marriage. If one read your letter from your wife’s perspective, she falls in love with a long distance partner, she marries him and leaves her entire social network only to discover a man who seems distant, emotionally vacant and sexually disinterested in her. She returns to school and now has doubts as to if she wants to return to the relationship. I would suggest you discuss the issues, define your roles and decide how to meet each other’s needs.

Nothing is going to be easy and magical as either of you expect. “You grow a soul mate, you don’t find a soul mate,” Haltzman says. “They don’t come that way out of the box. There’s some training involved.” You might feel irritated that she seems less than excited to participate in the rebuilding of your marriage, but even if she is not completely on board, you need to attempt the 3D’s. Recently Haltzman was asked "Don't these ideas work only if both people are willing to do them?" to which he answered, "No! Of course, it works better if both of you are on board, but even one person can make the relationship better!” It is worth a try.

Good luck,

Social Distortion
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Postby Mr. Spock » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:38 am

@ThunderHorse
You got a point there, while we talk on the phone daily, I don't let her vent everyday. Although vents usually go in the same direction with her listing my shortcomings towards her, I could give it a try.

I'm so concerned about understanding her complaints because she is very good at analyzing situations, so if she tells me I treat her like a task I need to perform on a check-list and do not really care about her, then that is how she feels it is and I need to focus on making her feel that I really do care about her. She does not see the action from my side or thinks I'm following a check-list and it does not come from the heart which makes it difficult at times. I should be happy that I have a wife who tells me exactly what the problem is and what I have to do to fix it. However, despite that I have not managed for months to convert the information I have into actions that would improve things. As mentioned when we see each other I think I'm doing ok but I can't apply the same things over the phone with the result that it drives her crazy and I'm running out of time and wondering what a complete idiot I am.

Well, I don't use a specific phrase to let her vent. It usually happens when I manage to piss her off by doing or saying something she understands as a sign that I don't care about her. Then she gets really into it and remembers all things I ever did to make her feel unloved. Since this usually ends in her being more convinced than before that it was a mistake to marry me and she'd be better off as a single, I'm not looking forward to those kind of vents.

@socialdistortion
While I appreciate your reply, most things you listed do not really apply to our situation. Your conclusion reads well though. The core issue does not seem to be a lack of defining roles but since we never really did that, I'll give it a try.
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Postby Mr. Spock » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:14 am

Things are getting worse. The last 2 days were bad. She said she does not love me anymore and does not want to come back to me again. It is over from her side, she just wants me to say that I don't love her anymore as well to make it easier, which I can't.

Despite this she still called me yesterday when she was in a better mood and we chatted for an hour. I tried to compliment her but she felt I do not really mean it as I never said it in the beginning of our relationship and further believes everything I do now is just working off a check-list. She feels treated like a task and hung up on me.

She feels we live parallel lives, not a shared one. I think it is because of my difficulties to fully open up to her (or anyone else for that matter). It is so frustrating, I know what to do but either I fail because she does not believe me I really mean it or I cannot break my old habits (expression of feelings and thoughts). Maybe she is right and this is me and I cannot change. I just don't know. I just know I need to change my ways now or she is gone.

Initially she wanted to have a long break from me in summer to recover, I'm not sure if she changed her plan of coming back in the last 2 days but she seems convinced that being single is the best solution for her as she sees all men now as idiots. I really want to save this marriage as I'm sure I can improve and make things better. I just need some more time to do so, I just don't know why I didn't manage to address things earlier or if I will fail again this time. In case I don't manage to fix it, I will let her go before she suffers more because of me but it will break my heart.

Next week we planned to visit her family and friends for a week. I'm not sure if I should still come along, to give her time alone to feel better. Then again, if I don't go with her I will not see her at all for another 6 weeks and as mentioned I think I can show her what I feel for her better in person than over the phone.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:24 am

Mr. Spock wrote:@ThunderHorse
Well, I don't use a specific phrase to let her vent. It usually happens when I manage to piss her off by doing or saying something she understands as a sign that I don't care about her. Then she gets really into it and remembers all things I ever did to make her feel unloved. Since this usually ends in her being more convinced than before that it was a mistake to marry me and she'd be better off as a single, I'm not looking forward to those kind of vents.

.



Most wives who complain do not consider themselves verbally abusive. But the rules for Verbal Abuse sometimes apply to complaint situations. The attitude you select when your wife is venting, is a choice. Silence is counterproductive.
Suzette Elgin's Boring Baroque Response is often needed.


VERBAL ABUSE THREADS

Post No 2 provides suggestions for a wife to deal with verbal abuse from a husband. Post No 12 discusses incorporating Compliments into blithering pleasantries in response to spousal abuse.
http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ight=abuse

List of Secrets threads on verbal abuse before April 18, 2010
http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ight=abuse

Second post on this thread lists other threads and references on Verbal Abuse:
http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ight=abuse

Recent thread on Verbal abuse, with references, Second Post to Husband who was abusive, but whose wife has turned abusive.
http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ight=abuse


Compliments for husbands to give wives during blithering Boring Baroque responses to Verbal abuse:
http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... .php?t=477








//
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Postby ThunderHorse » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:12 pm

Mr. Spock wrote:Things are getting worse. The last 2 days were bad. She said she does not love me anymore and does not want to come back to me again. It is over from her side, she just wants me to say that I don't love her anymore as well to make it easier, which I can't.

ed I think I can show her what I feel for her better in person than over the phone.




You are making a mistake in the way you are encouraging venting.


You are listening to the words your wifei is using to vent.

As long as your wife is venting to you, regardless of the subject, you are perforing an important part fo the male-female relationship.

So what if her venting includes words that she is not in love with you?


She is venting, isn't she? She is calling you back.

You are doing a great job over the phone, except you are taking her venting words to heart. You don't have to try to understand everything she vents about. You need to discount some things. Like when she says she is unhappy with you. Discount it. It doe not make logical sense, it is emottional release.

It is NORMAL for all wives to be frustrated, to some extent, many times, with their husbands. Why are you worried about Normal?
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Postby ThunderHorse » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:02 am

Phrases for encouraging wife's Venting:


Wife: "I just don't love you anymore!"


Husband: "I am sure that many wives wish they were more deeply in Love with their husbands, at some times of their marriage."



//
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Postby Mr. Spock » Tue May 03, 2011 4:22 am

She is venting, isn't she? She is calling you back.

You are doing a great job over the phone, except you are taking her venting words to heart. You don't have to try to understand everything she vents about. You need to discount some things. Like when she says she is unhappy with you. Discount it. It doe not make logical sense, it is emottional release.

It is NORMAL for all wives to be frustrated, to some extent, many times, with their husbands. Why are you worried about Normal?


Yes, granted she is venting but the reason I'm taking her words to heart is because what she says is true. I did mistakes in the past, and still do some today - if I would stop making those mistakes, she would be happier, no?

Maybe it is normal for wives to be frustrated but I think I should at least take her seriously and try to understand what makes her unhappy. After all, I love her and if it is within my power to make her less frustrated, that should be my aim - normal or not. I'm not gonna discount things I know to be true she is venting about.
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Postby Mr. Spock » Fri May 06, 2011 1:28 am

I'm wondering if someone has a suggestion how to address the following problem:

I had no idea that my wife had the emotional need to hear that I find her beautiful. As mentioned earlier, it is not easy for me to express myself and open up fully. I thought, I am with her, she will know that I find her beautiful and attractive.

As I learned the hard way, that was not the case. Instead I ruined her self esteem as she was always doubting herself thinking she was either ugly or I am gay - neither is true.

Now that she explained it to me I have understood that I need to tell her (in specific ways), which I find hard over the phone, but I'm trying anyways. Most of the time however when I do she is not happy about it (sometimes she gets really upset - in the wrong moment it's a mood killer), saying it is too late to say such things now, as I never said them before I would not really mean them and she would never believe me. She claims my voice changes and I'm lying. Her reaction is not really encouraging. On some rare occasions though she actually does believe me but it never lasts long.

How do I get out of this hole? The Boring Baroque Response is not really my first choice as talking a lot about nothing is not really my strength and it does not address the core issue here. I really do think she is beautiful, so it's not a matter of bending the truth or anything, it is making her believe me. I need a sustainable solution.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Sat May 07, 2011 1:51 pm

ThunderHorse
 
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Postby Mr. Spock » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:38 am

I'm afraid these compliments won't do for me.

What my wife wants to hear are very specific compliments, that ideally apply to her only. On top of that she needs to feel I really mean them. Frequently when I try to compliment her, she claims my voice changed and that's a sign that I do not really mean it. She's convinced of that and I haven't managed to change her mind.

The problem is I got myself into this mess by not giving her compliments earlier and it's very hard to get out of it. Any assistance would be appreciated.

The other day she told me she should be lucky to have me as a husband as I do a lot of things right. But there is this one thing I absolutely suck in: making her feel good about herself. She even told me she weighted the good things against this one bad and she came to the conclusion that it has the potential to ruin our marriage.

On top of me not making her feel good about herself, she started to get problems with her skin and her hair and is thus already not in a good mood to start with as she remembers the days when she had great hair and skin. When she's in a bad mood, compliments never work.

I'm having a real hard time dealing with this. Every time she comes to this topic I actually break a sweat and try very hard not to say a wrong word which might get her pissed or upset. I usually do make it worse as I never seem to say the right words, maybe there is no perfect solution for those situations but I'm wondering if there is, I'd like to learn it.
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Re: I need help

Postby Mr. Spock » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:44 am

I'm getting desperate. I thought things will improve when we are back in one place which we are since about 2 months now. But things are not getting better. We didn't have sex in weeks and my wife raised the same issues over and over again: She feels I don't desire her or find her beautiful. she does not believe me when I say so. Despite the fact that I know exactly what I am not giving her and a decent idea what to do, I am just not able to put it into action. It is driving her crazy and making her physically sick (there is evidence).

I really should be lucky that she is able to tell me what exactly it is I need to be doing but I also understand how disappointed she must be in me that I do nothing about it. She says she is at 98% to a divorce now. A few weeks ago it was just 70%. She is more and more used to the idea and getting comfortable with it because she knows she will have a better life without me. I do not want to give up this marriage. I love her so much. I do see that I am hurting her and even consider letting her go to not cause her any more pain.

I found this marriage help website, which talks about not letting negative feelings influence you and positively change the environment around you (including your spouse). It sounds plausible but the action plan costs a 1000$. I'm not sure whether it really works or is a scam but I'm getting desperate so I might actually try it. Of course it's a lot of money I could perhaps better spend to get furniture for the apartment we moved in to recently.

So, if anyone has any ideas how I can start acting and making things right, please let me know. All those superficial compliments listed above are useless in my situation.
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