Is this marriage over?

Is this marriage over?

Postby MangoMan » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:17 am

I have been married to my wife for 5 years. We have no kids and at this stage I do not want any. When we first married, I wanted kids badly. My wife is in her early 30s and I am in my late 40s. She is drop dead gorgeous and I am overweight. We are a physical mismatch for sure.

My wife is highly educated, more than me. She has 3 degrees vs one of mine. She was good at her profession in her home country but now she is in the West where she has to re qualify. Her English is perfect and she can be charming as hell but deep down she is insecure, possibly due to a bad relationship with her domineering father. She is very aggressive to an extent a bully.

She has put me through hell because of her insecurities. I dearly loved her. I surrendered to her. I put her before my own life. I have made many sacrifices for her because of the love I have felt. She took that love for granted. She abused me physically and verbally. The police have visited our homes several times. She has lied to the police that I have hit her. I have never touched the woman.

When my wife gets angry I feel she could do anything. I do not know that person. She is very scary. She has threatened suicide on me a few times. She has stolen money from me. She does not consider it theft but entitlement. Her money is hers, my money is ours is her motto. She has borrowed money from me promising to return but never has. She has damaged the property we used to live in because of strange religious beliefs. I have gone through a life of hell the last 2 years. I have lost my job because of her.

Recently, my wife was gone for several months visiting her ailing mother. The solitude did me a lot of good. I grew as a person. Things changed in me. Though I care for my wife I do not feel attracted to her. Given her physical features, any man would want her but I do not. She is the one who always initiates sex. For me it was never sex but making love. The moments would last hours with a lot simple gestures like looking into her eyes, conversations, holding each other,... For me it was always pleasing her that mattered.

Now I do not want to touch her. I dislike the act now because it is not intimate. It does not last long, thank God, but I do feel the insincerity on my part compared to what it used to be. In the end, I think a lot has to do with my respect for my wife. I do not have that anymore and I do not care. If she left me today I would be relieved but she won't because in her way she cannot live without me. She sees that I have changed and we have talked about it a bit but yet she keeps behaving as though nothing has changed.

So my question, is there any hope in this marriage? I have tried counseling. My wife does not believe in that. We have never tried joint marriage counseling though.

Thanks for listening.
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Postby elizacol » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:31 pm

Wow! I am so sorry you have had to go through this with your wife.

If you've read any of my posts on this board, you will know I am
pro 'save the marriage'! Which is why, when I tell you that you
would be better off without her, and that you should exit this situation
asap, it must be pretty bad in my book.

Imo, you've put up with enough. No one deserves to be abused, physically
or emotionally. No one!

It doesn't matter what you look like, nor what she looks like. She likely won't
change.

I'm sorry!
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Postby ThunderHorse » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:36 pm

Elizocol may have better intuition than I do.

My feeling is that you need to have confidence in being able to handle abuse from your wife.

Search this forum for 8 steps, Suzette Elgin. YOU CAN'T SAY THAT TO ME.

You post did not indicate that you have gained a confidence in your ability to help your wife with her abusive behavior.

It does not seem that you have arranged for a day of separation, without jealousy, when things get too tense. See books, the Intimate Enemy.

You mentoned physical abuse from your wife. I try to keep up my Aikido skills, and grappling, to avoid injury, to myself, or my opponent. There are a number of Aikido schools that teach Aikdo for disabling an opponent. Do you know of any Aikido shcools for preventing injury only?

It may be over, but I offer these concepts to assist in a continuation of a marriage with a difficult woman. Not really a recommendation.



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Postby MangoMan » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:18 pm

elizacol & Thunderhorse,

thank you for your replies.

elizacol, you are right I have to leave. Today she went into an abusive tirade ...again, after promising me she would not do it. There are always excuses why she did it, most of them having to do with me, that is I made her do it.

I was relatively calm throughout this episode, tried to reason with her, told her to soften her voice but could not slow down the momentum. In the end, I opted to leave the house for the moment to break the abuse.

She called me a half an hour later as though nothing had happened, her voice as sweet as can be, asking me to return to the house.

Thunderhorse, I was not aware of the stated benefits of Akido. Thank you for that. I will not needed it as I have decided to leave.

Regards.
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Postby elizacol » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:38 pm

You know, we would never expect a woman to stay in an abusive relationship. Why should a man? Abuse is abuse.

Mangoman. Stay strong. Beautiful on the outside does not always mean beautiful on the inside. You deserve better.

Take care!!
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Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:22 am

MangoMan wrote:elizacol & Thunderhorse,

thank you for your replies.

elizacol, you are right I have to leave. Today she went into an abusive tirade ...again, after promising me she would not do it. There are always excuses why she did it, most of them having to do with me, that is I made her do it.

I was relatively calm throughout this episode, tried to reason with her, told her to soften her voice but could not slow down the momentum. In the end, I opted to leave the house for the moment to break the abuse.

She called me a half an hour later as though nothing had happened, her voice as sweet as can be, asking me to return to the house.

Thunderhorse, I was not aware of the stated benefits of Akido. Thank you for that. I will not needed it as I have decided to leave.

Regards.



Congratulations on finding a way to end the abusive episode from your wife, by leaving the family abode.

Reasoning with an abuser is one of the rewards they seek. Reasoning is similar to arguing. You can help your wife end her abuse by using pleasant gibberish as a response. Elgin calls it the Boring Baroque response. Apparently you have argued with your wife during her past episodes of abuse, and that has helped establish a pattern, or habit of abuse toward you.

The other idea that came to me after my post, was Unditiional Listening, Chapter 7 in THE SECRETSOF HAPILY MARRIED MEN. You may assist your wife in discharging any emotional upsets for her by letting her talk in a random manner, some 15 minutes per day.

Pleasant blithering might go something like, "I see that you are upset about such and such, certainly I am partly to blame because I did not anticipate this would be so important to you, but I can try to do something or other next time, and for now I am sorry you are so upset, and certainly many people would be upset if such and such occurred, when the thought the situation was well in hand, and certainly you took steps to avoid this from happening, and we did not foress that thses problems would arise, etc. etc."

My wife had been habitually abusive in the past, but I have my sing-song pleasant blithering most any time. I rarely have to leave the house any more.



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To Mangoman: Your wife may have a personality disorder.

Postby obentoman » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:22 pm

Mangoman:

Your wife may have a personality disorder, which explains why she habitually puts you through this abuse.

You are quite right. It does not matter how physically attractive a woman is.

Once the initial stages of courtship is over and you settle down with her to actually cohabit together, the way she treats you as a man truly affects your desire or lack of desire (or abhorrence ) for her.

That is why sometimes you hear of so and so of a man who left a physically attractive wife for another woman and the other woman is somewhat dowdy looking, compared to the wife.

But the other woman, treats him like a king or like a human being to begin with. While his wife is a monster with personality disorders of her own.

Case in point: Prince Charles and the late Princess Diana who had BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) - he went for the fugly Camilla Parker Bowles. Probably she (the latter) builds him up to be who he can be, a King, while the former ruthlessly tears him down and has affair galore with other men, who she deems "can meet her pathological needs".

You may do well to check this below website out and determine which personality disorder your wife has. ( My own crappy wife has OCPD ).

http://www.outofthefogsite.com/index.html

Feel free to discuss and reply to my post either publicly or otherwise.
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Re: To Mangoman: Your wife may have a personality disorder.

Postby ThunderHorse » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:05 pm

obentoman wrote:You may do well to check this below website out and determine which personality disorder your wife has. ( My own crappy wife has OCPD ).

http://www.outofthefogsite.com/index.html

Feel free to discuss and reply to my post either publicly or otherwise.


OCPD = Obsessive compulsive personality disorder.

Thanks for the reverence on personality disorders.

What could your wife change to be a better wife for you?

How could you phrase a request for a step in some desired direction?

How could you re-structure cicumstances to make a desired step more likely to happen?




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Postby ThunderHorse » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:39 am

My wife is OCPD about some things, with intensity. I enjoy some of her OCPD activities.
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Obentoman replies in regards to OCPD.

Postby obentoman » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:55 am

Gents:

My reply to you all:

1) Thunderhorse - I cannot IMAGINE why you would find any of a god-damned psycho OCPD woman's activities even mildly amusing or entertaining ! What are you? A glutton for punishment?



2) Thuderhorse again : No way, my OCPD crackpot can never change to be a beter wife/woman - it was my mistake marrying her and I did not know about it till she started treating me like dirt and sending me up the wall with her OCPD holier than thou, perfecter than thou, self righteous, abusive and then "never say-sorry" ways.

OCPD's you must understand, will not even recognise that they have OCPD or any other problem. Remember they are ultra-self righteous ?

It's not their problem, it's always yours. ..... "Honey, it's not me, it's all you !".

And they downright lie - compulsive liars - they will abuse you and disrespect you for their OCPD beliefs and ways....and when you bring it up with them later on ( in a fight ) after a brief period of stone-walling and withdrawal, they will categorically deny that they ever said "such-and-such" of a hurtful thing to you and it was all in your imagination and accuse you that you are an insecure man and are making it up.

Mine is exactly like that and will be that way till the day she dies.

Then when you withdraw from them and show them zero affection, they become all-sweet-and-lovey-dovey as if nothing happened ( minus the much needed apology of course ), .... that's called "Hoovering in that website I shared with you guys ( the out of the fog one ). They are trying to suck you back into a loving relationship again, and when you are most vulnerable they can attack you once again, when their next maniacal attack rage comes around.

Just don't get sucked in again.

OCPD's are total crack pots.

I doubt very much I'd stick to my crazy bitch, once my kid grows up and I don't have to stay together for the kid's sake. She's been threatening divorce close to a 100 times already in the 10 years ( just to win a fight - you can't fight fair with her ) we've been married.


Just you wait....a day will finally come, when I will grant her, her WISH.

She will be totally hideous and old by then, but I will look after myself and still be very desirable. Who is going to have a the last laugh then?

Sick of her sh*t.
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Re: Obentoman replies in regards to OCPD.

Postby ThunderHorse » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:34 am

obentoman wrote:Gents:

My reply to you all:

1) Thunderhorse - I cannot IMAGINE why you would find any of a god-damned psycho OCPD woman's activities even mildly amusing or entertaining ! What are you? A glutton for punishment?



2) Thuderhorse again : No way, my OCPD crackpot can never change to be a beter wife/woman - it was my mistake marrying her and I did not know about it till she started treating me like dirt and sending me up the wall with her OCPD holier than thou, perfecter than thou, self righteous, abusive and then "never say-sorry" ways.

OCPD's you must understand, will not even recognise that they have OCPD or any other problem. Remember they are ultra-self righteous ?

It's not their problem, it's always yours. ..... "Honey, it's not me, it's all you !".

And they downright lie - compulsive liars - they will abuse you and disrespect you for their OCPD beliefs and ways....and when you bring it up with them later on ( in a fight ) after a brief period of stone-walling and withdrawal, they will categorically deny that they ever said "such-and-such" of a hurtful thing to you and it was all in your imagination and accuse you that you are an insecure man and are making it up.

Mine is exactly like that and will be that way till the day she dies.

Then when you withdraw from them and show them zero affection, they become all-sweet-and-lovey-dovey as if nothing happened ( minus the much needed apology of course ), .... that's called "Hoovering in that website I shared with you guys ( the out of the fog one ). They are trying to suck you back into a loving relationship again, and when you are most vulnerable they can attack you once again, when their next maniacal attack rage comes around.

Just don't get sucked in again.

OCPD's are total crack pots.

I doubt very much I'd stick to my crazy bitch, once my kid grows up and I don't have to stay together for the kid's sake. She's been threatening divorce close to a 100 times already in the 10 years ( just to win a fight - you can't fight fair with her ) we've been married.


Just you wait....a day will finally come, when I will grant her, her WISH.

She will be totally hideous and old by then, but I will look after myself and still be very desirable. Who is going to have a the last laugh then?

Sick of her sh*t.



One of the probles with OCPD nd other Pychologica defintions, is that the definitions do not point to a particlular regimen of cure, other than years of Psychotherapy. This is why a number of self-help organizations have come into being, toanswer specific problems, such as drug addiction or habit control.

Your vent has pointed to several complaints

Apparently part of your wife's OCPD that you find offnsive is her holding you to excessively perfect standards of achievement or behavior.

Another complaint is that yoru wife is irrational or crazy. An important part of sanity for a woman is that yer man il let hervent for about 15 minutes per day. Chaprer 4, in the SECRETS OF HAPPIL MARRIED MEN discusses the importance of listening. Try allowing your wife to spiderweb, talk in dissasociative pattens.

Are you unintentionally rewarding your wife's criticizng you excessively?

Argueing, reasoning, complaining, ignoring and yelling are all frequent forms of unintended rewrds.. See Suzette Elgin's book, YOU CAN'T SAY THAT TO ME.

The answer to ending your wife's verbal abuse is blithering soft compliments. By speaking pleasant gibberish in response to her unwarrante criticism, you encourage to finish ventillatng, without rewarding her being obnoxious about it.

One of the common reasons for divorce is that one spouse has given up hope that the other partner will change. Perhaps you are looking for reasons to divorce your wife.

I asked my wife to assst our adult son iwth his oppositional defiant behvior. I asked my wife to work on her Make-Wrong and Oppositonal behavior. My wife and I recently watched Humphrey Bogart in the Caine Mutiny movie. My wife coud see that CaptainQueeg was taking an oppositional, Make-Wrong approach to the officers and crew of the Caine

I have coppied some oppositional passages from the Novel, from the Library, and I have been discussing the Caine movie with my wife. I have oredered a DVD of the Caine Mutiny.

I do not enjoy my wife's verbal abuse, but since applying Elgin, have experienced much less verbal abuse, with much less intensity, much less often.


What else would you like your wife to change?






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Re: Obentoman replies in regards to OCPD.

Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:41 am

obentoman wrote:Gents:

My reply to you all:
Sick of her sh*t.



One approach is to give her certain time to vent. Disconnect yhour feelings, and let hr mention any ideas she has, without being asked to explain her feelings, or otherwise challenged. The may hel your wife to become less of a crackpot in other marital aspects.

Another approach is to check out what rewards you might be giveing your wife for herabussiv behavior. Check out YOU CAN'T SAY THAT T ME, by Suzette Elgin, Boring Baroque Response. Blithering kindly compliments, in Gibberish, is a suggested effective response to Verbal Abuse.
Yelling, arguing or scorning are most usually considered rewards by the abuser.




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Re: Is this marriage over?

Postby TDKlee » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:18 pm

Hello MangoMan,
I sympathize with your situations. I think there is something she can’t get over, perhaps she was abused when she was small. You said that she is insecure possibly due to a bad relationship with her domineering father. She is very aggressive to an extent a bully. How long has she been aggressive? Do you love her? Did you help her out?
My psychology professor Dr. Ski says that characteristics of batterers have two factors. Risk factors associated with domestic violence include unemployment, drinking and drug problems, tendency to anger easily, attitudes that condone aggression, high stress, males exposed to violence as children. Relationship factors associated with domestic violence include having frequent disagreements, exhibiting a heated style of dealing with disagreements, having a man with traditional gender role attitudes paired with a woman who has non-traditional views of gender roles. She also says effects of battering go beyond physical injury can include severe anxiety and depression, feelings of helplessness and humiliation, stress-related illnesses and PTSD, and vulnerability to suicide.
My advice is to give her certain time to vent. Control your feelings, and let she speaks any thoughts she has. Don’t ask her to explain her feelings, or otherwise challenged. Most importantly, you need to get to the bottom of this. If you truly love her, you should help her to get over the bad flashbacks she had. In that way, she can be healed completely. I hope this will give you a little help.
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Re: Is this marriage over?

Postby LoudSilence » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:55 pm

As you began your post, you mentioned your initial, and current thoughts on having children. Do you believe this may be another affect on you and your wife’s situation? You mentioned that your wife’s overall reasoning behind her aggression is her insecurities if I understand correctly. Do you feel that her insecurities lead to her aggression or is it something she has mentioned in the past? If I’m understanding correctly, you are ready to move on and leave this marriage. You feel you've done everything to make this relationship work, and there is just no cooperation from your partner.

My professor, Dr. Cara Misiurski, says that “opposites do not attract, rather they divorce.” As I was reading your post, I came across a vast amount of differences between you and your wife. Differences include your ages, your education levels, physical attractiveness, where you two are in your professions, and even confidence levels. People usually stay married if these differences you two have are similar. The equity and attachment that should be present in your relationship doesn't seem to exist.

Based on your post, you and your wife have quite a few differences. When in a relationship, or in a marriage in your case, self-esteem, attraction, and correlation matter deeply for a functioning union. Your wife’s aggressive tirades do not help things as well. Her intentional behavior is aimed at causing your physical, and most likely psychological pain, as you've stated she does. If its indeed her insecurities she’s had as a result of her father that is causing this aggressive behavior, she is displacing it on to you.

While I am indeed an individual that believes making a marriage work is important, I feel that it is time to walk away. From strictly your post, I believe you've done your best and all you could to save a struggling marriage. Marriage is a commitment of two people working together to make it work, not just you. You’re a good man with vast amounts of patience, whose tolerance level has just reached it’s maximum.
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Re: Is this marriage over?

Postby christina_8 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:18 pm

It seems as though you feel like you and your wife are a perfect match but over the years you feel like things have died down and you’re becoming insecure. You stated that she has put you through hell because of her own insecurities, could this be true or is there something that you were doing wrong for her to out you through this?
There is a thing called “3 components of love” which was founded by Stenberg. This states that if you have passion, commitment and intimacy you have whats called “consummate love”. This is the highest you can be in your relationship with your partner. Going by this is seems that over the years you have lost all of them.
Without having passion, commitment or intimacy I would say that you don’t have a relationship anymore. When you said that you’re scared of your wife when she gets angry is a sign right there something is wrong; possibly that doesn’t have to do fully with the marriage and she has a psychological problem that she should get taken care of. Saying straight out that you don’t want to be intimate with your wife any longer is a sign also.
My advice would to be to talk to your wife about seeing a psychiatrists because maybe theres an underlying problem in her head that she hasn’t gotten to terms with that is out of both of your controls. If that doesn’t work and your wife still “bullies” you then I believe that she isn’t ready to be with anyone and I would say that it isn’t fully your problem. I wish you all the best.
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