Stymied by a former lover

Stymied by a former lover

Postby stymied » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:57 pm

My wife of 2.5 years unexpectedly got a call from a former lover after 6 years of no contact while I was away on a business trip. I came home a day early after my trip of two weeks to find them on the couch talking at 11pm. My wife calmly introduced us from the couch but without any raised voices I advised this fellow to leave so I could have words with my wife. He left and she said they needed to work out some past problem they had and that was the only time since our one year old son takes up a large part of her life. I told her I thought it was inappropriate to have meeting like this. She thinks its fine.

So some deep conversations followed as my suspicions had been raised and I discover that she has been very unhappy with our relationship and wants separation. I learn of all my misgivings and judgment calls that has left her frustrated and unable to see any hope for the future.

We have had challenges with who plays the lead role in the family as she is a self made millionaire and I am not. My wife has a phd in lit. and is a perfectionist in every way. I have a great cashflow business that can be opened and closed anytime which can make great money very quickly. I have used this freedom with my money making to stay at home for long periods of time to enjoy her company and watch my son grow and learn. I saw his first steps and heard his first words. Ive feel In have done my duty with 1000 diaper changes, 1000 middle of then night comfort sessions and uncountable feedings.

My wife is very disappointed that 'we' have not made any ground financially over the last two years, so she is now questioning my ability to provide for the future. She also says she is not 'in love with me'. Since we have not had any romantic outings I can totally understand. One of my misgivings was when I did not come to her aid when she was sick prior to our marriage.

Unfortunately I have uncovered emails from this former lover and one from her best friend and confidant that suggests she may be falling in love with him. One email from her even said she has never been in love with me. She married me because she couldn't get this man. She maintains, and so does he, since I have spoken to him personally, that their relationship has no bearing on ours and that they are just clearing the air. They continue their emails phone calls, late night texts and the occasional afternoon meetings where I stay home and look after baby. He has told me that he has no intentions whatsoever to break up our marriage.

With the talks we have had recently I have set some financial goals and set out to make her feel loved and wanted again. My wife is in a rut and I do find it very difficult to woe her in any way since she mostly refuses to do anything out of the home since baby needs to go to sleep at 12:03pm every day and the like. And as soon as baby is asleep she is also in bed asleep. Finding common ground is tough.

I will continue to smother her with kisses and tell her my feelings and buy her flowers and go to work and bring home the bacon. I am checking my waistline and working on myself as well.

Any suggestions would be welcome.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:40 pm

Chapter 4 is listening toyour wife. I do not hear you expoinding on your listening skills. Many women need permission to vent freely. Many women needs several invitations ech day, to finally feel free to talek for 15 minutes in a vent.

Some women appreciate kisses, but more women appreciate a sounding board for their ideas.
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thoughtful

Postby stymied » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:10 pm

Thanks for your reply. We have been talking thoughtfully about our feelings, goals and objectives however its can be a very dry conversation as she continues to say she does not think she wants to be married to me. Unfortunately its been difficult for us to enjoy each others company even though we are being thoughtful and polite.
I have said we need some time to become good friends and learn more about one another but the scientific/phd part of her mind seems made up already.
Her main objective seems to be what she calls a fundamental different way of thinking between us.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:46 pm

What mistakes have you made in unconditional listening for some 15 mintes ad day? Offering to listen 2 or 4 times a day?

I was listening to my wife last night, and she was complaining about some thing for which there are simple soutions. I gave myself a star for "WITHHELD SOLUTIONS", on my calendar. My wife knew what the solutions were, but wanted to vent.

What solutions have come to your mind,that you have witheld from your wife, as part of your uncodtional listening?

I was a lttle late getting out of the house for work, the other day. I try to give myself 15 minutes extra, so that if my wife wants to talk as a I am leaving, I want to be able to stop and listen.

So I would like to hear more details of your listening successes.

I suggest that you have a plan for protecting the love you have for your wife. There are several approaches for preventing you love for your wife being dimished.

Perhaps you can ask her long lost lover for a schedule of winding things down.

Your legal rights might be important to explore. Alienation of affection comes to mind.

What are your wife's expectations for your earnings? How are your massage skills? What suggestins could you make about getting the family budget in line with your current earnings?

What other baby sitter arrangements could you work on making?

Married Romance can be different from Single Romance. Dating is going out. Marriage is enjoying being home. What resources on child development have you reviewed. Babies are increasing their coordination of eyes and hands. What Celebrations of your child's achievents have you encouraged?




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Postby ThunderHorse » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:45 pm

Why does your wife go to sleep without your having offered her a back rub? Alcohol, baby powder of baby oil? How can you more closely match your wife's pattern of going to sleep with your altertness for massage?
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Re: Stymied by a former lover

Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:38 am

stymied wrote:My wife of 2.5 years unexpectedly got a call from a former lover after 6 years of no contact while I was away on a business trip. ..... watch my son grow and learn. I saw his first steps and heard his first words. Ive feel In have done my duty with 1000 diaper changes, 1000 middle of then night comfort sessions and uncountable feedings.

My She also says she is not 'in love with me'. where I stay home and look after baby. He has told me that he has no intentions whatsoever to break up our marriage.

Any suggestions would be welcome.



Apparently you have a son who is a year-and-a-half old, or so.

Your wife will meet men with whom she will become infatuated, from time to time. Many people get married for various reasons. Once you are married with children, then family honor and good parenting are important, and being loving to your co-parenting partner.

A no-contact letter is one objective for you to ask for from your wife. Your wife asks the guy to not contact her, and gives you a copy of he letter.

It is not being an honorable co-parenting partner to be seeing old boy friends, or new ones, and when a pattern gets established, Cold Turkey is often the best way to change the habit.

From one perspective, this old boy friend is liable for all the parenting expenses of your son, through college, graduate school and internship expenses. If the guy wants to continue to see your wife, he should put up $500,000.00 trust fund in your control for expenses for educating your son, and paying for any future child support you might be ordered to pay.

It is not just what his intentions might be, but it also is extablishing a pattern of an open marriage for your wife, which could well have furhter ramifications, and grounds for divorce later on, in future situations.



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Re: Stymied by a former lover

Postby ThunderHorse » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:27 pm

stymied wrote:.

We have had challenges with who plays the lead role in the family as she is a self made millionaire and I am not. My wife has a phd in lit. and is a perfectionist in every way.
Any suggestions would be welcome.



Taking this snippit, perhaps out of context, raises some questions for me.

Maybe I am mostlyprojecting.

If wyour wife is a perfectionist, does this mean that she likes to criticiz your?

If your wife is an over-achiever, does this mean that she has inadequate self-reward systems?

If you are going overboard to please your wife, dis this mean that yor wife fails to give a 4 to 1 or a 7 to 1, positive response, as compared to critcal observations?

My wife was talking to me about religion and God. I told her that I felt her remarks as criticim. My wife said I was mistaken, the she was just expressing the realities of God. I repeated that I felt her remarks as critical. My wife became silent, apparently understanding that I felt criticized.

On of my personal deficiet is in being able to reward myself for mundane tasks. I find other things to do, like writge posst on the internet. I have not donemuch to ask my wife to be a better partner in rewarding little efforts, and insignificant achievements.

Do you have advice for me?





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Postby ThunderHorse » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:45 am

I have allowed my wife to develop a habit of when I amake a request for something to benefit me, she will begin a litinay of criticsim of me. "You could be more fit, you could earn more money, you could spend less money on yourself, you could help with more vacuming, you could manage the cars so they need less repairs, etc." The subject could have been that I would prefer my socks not be stuffed in pairs, inside the other sock, but rather left lying singly, in my sock drawer.

In respons to my wife's criticism as a response, I will often then just summarize my request, "Well if you coud remember that I prefer my socks not folded together in pairs inside each other, it would make it easier for me to get dressed. Thanks for any consideration you might remember."

I could ask her for an appolgy, because I was asking her about my socks, and she brought up a raft of crticism. That violates the ratios of 4 or 6 to one compliments. Itis also irrelev ant to my request. If my wife finds it difficult to meet a request of mine, her difficulties should be discussed, not taking an oppositional approach to me personally.

If the appology is rejected, I could walk into another room, or otherwise withdraw, in an interruption to emphasize my request for an appolgy, and say, "I am still expecting you to honor my request, particularly now that you have taken an oppositional approach. When you take an opositonal apprach, of lambasint criticsm, you should discipline yourself by making every effort to comply withh my request, to whcih you were oppositional."

Different people have different levels of altruism, which is the inclination to do what is right, and for the good of all. Is your wife interested in beg a good mother to your son? Can your wife envision a time when she will explain to your son, that she decided to play the field whe he was 2? When her son is 10. 20 or 40?

Plan B is a trial separation where the interested spouse cuts off contact with the wayward spouse. Do you have any withdarwal strategies in mind?

180 Degree Divorce Busters is where you change up what you have been doing, just to demonstrate that you can make changes.




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Postby ThunderHorse » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:09 am

A No contact letter might go something like,:

Dear Old Boy friend,

I find that I am enthralled by your presence and conversation, excessively, and my feelings of infatuation for you are interfering wtih my marriage, and my being a good wife and mother. I want to be able to explain oll my actions to my son, as being a good mother, an a good family unit member, as my son gets older. Raising a son and putting him through college is often helpd with a good family configuration. There are many t emptations, to which if my son fell into, I might blame myself for not having been a good mother/Wife in the family unit.

Since I am not in conrol of my feelings of infatuation, I need to stop communicating with you. I have your contact information, and if I get divorced, I may contact you. If you change your contact information, you may send me a letter, addressed to both my husband and myself.

I may have feelings of excessive emotional attraction to some other man, in the future, during the course of my marriage. It is a recommended practice to cut off communications, if feeling get too far toward love and enthrallment. Marriage is a commitment to love, and is not about being "in Love". My husband is keeping his committment to love me, and I should keep committment to love him.

If I call your phone number by mistake, please hang up without trying to carry on a conversation. I will hang up promptly. If you call my number by mistake. or otherwise, I will hang up, abruptly, and in an impolite manner. Please accept my appology in advance, or being impolite, to avoid contact with you,

If you feel a need to discuss this matter, please contact my husband. I you see my by chance in public or anywhere, pleas limit an converation to "Hello", if that. I intend to do my part to help my son withstand the temptations to shorcuts for euphira, which the world has to offer.

I hope you will respect my husband and my son, in my request for this no contact.

Truly yours



Anotehr feeling I had was taht you may be listening to your wife too litterally. When se says, I wish Ididn't have tochange the diapers, or read to our son. You may, as aproblem solver thinking, most men, say "I will change the diapers or I will read to our son for you."

The empathetic answer ands reaffirming hteimportanceof motherhood, is to say something like, "The bonding of the mother with the son is important. Changing Diapers and reading to our son will increase your bond with him. When our son encounters temptations, we want our son to resist, like many of the world's shortcuts to euphoria, so our son's bond to you, as his mother, will be stronger, and more important to him. I could read to him, but I would be depriving our son of your important bonding.







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Postby ThunderHorse » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:50 am

Additonal Concepts for the No-Contact Letter:

When I continue my habit of carrying on lengthy conversations with you, I am disrespecting my marriage, and the extended family which is part of the realities of a marriage. A marriage is not just between two people, it involves the children and the in-Laws.

By continuing to disrespect the marriage, I also disrespect my husband's relatives and supporters, and thow who would suport our son, if I honored the marriage. I am also dimiishing my own relatives attachment or committment to my son. My giving into the temptation of infatuation feelings of exhileration with you, are having a negative effect on the availability of suport for my son, as he gows up. Many young adults today are having trouble finding good jobs, or even any job. The networking of the extended family wil be important for my son in today's world.

Truly yours,


The value of asking for an appology has the benefit of serving as an interrupter. To change the habits of a spouse, you need positive reinforcement and interruption skills. By asking for an appolgy, you are changing your listeneing attention, and congtrolling your side of hte conversation.

Perhpas when my wife is talking about religion, and I am feeling criticized, instead of saying I feel criticized, I could give her a compliment, like, "You have given considerable effort to study Cristianity, and you have an excellent understanding of Christian teachings. Could you tell me about some additonal aspects of Christian teachings that you find helpful, or that are important to you?"

This means "The eligious principles that you just described seem irrelevant to me, so why don't you talk about something else?"




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workout her way out

Postby stymied » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:10 pm

Thanks for your support Thunder! Great ideas that I'm trying to work into my routine.
My wife is a perfectionist and criticizes me at every opportunity. I do try to take her suggestions and keep the peace.
I think the old boyfriend has lost interest as my wife has overly pursued his friendship. With that being said she is looking for separation papers to be officially written up to give, what she calls some insurance/security. We will maintain living together in our house but in separate rooms.
I try to liven things up with outings and dinner dates. She is not thankful in any way so at this time Ill just grin and bear it.
I have always loved to give my wife massages, however recently she says she is too tired for it so I'm not able to give in that department.

I do think she is depressed in some ways but she refuses to acknowledge my concerns even after some near disaster yesterday in the kitchen. I had to report it to our doc so family services may be taking a visit with us.
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An intruder in your life

Postby Scott Haltzman » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:07 pm

It's so difficult to work on your relationships when your partner spends more time thinking about why he/she wants out of the relationship--she takes for granted the wonderful things that marriage can bring.
But how do you convince someone that marriage is worth it, even if it comes with a lot of headaches?
Sometimes time away reminds a person that, hey, there ARE some advantages of having another person in my life. Sometimes getting family (her family) members involved can help your wife gain perspective. Clergy is another way of helping a spouse see a bigger picture than her own immediate happiness.
I agree with Thunderhorse--how DO you tell your child that you chose to break vows for your own happiness? BTW, I think he really has something with the "No-Contact" letter.
Ultimately, in these situations you can only be the best man you can be.

N.B. My comments are not intended to represent advice or medical information--simply reflections intended to foster discussion.
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Re: workout her way out

Postby ThunderHorse » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:29 pm

stymied wrote:Thanks for your support Thunder! Great ideas that I'm trying to work into my routine.
My wife is a perfectionist and criticizes me at every opportunity. I do try to take her suggestions and keep the peace.
I think the old boyfriend has lost interest as my wife has overly pursued his friendship. With that being said she is looking for separation papers to be officially written up to give, what she calls some insurance/security. We will maintain living together in our house but in separate rooms.
I try to liven things up with outings and dinner dates. She is not thankful in any way so at this time Ill just grin and bear it.
I have always loved to give my wife massages, however recently she says she is too tired for it so I'm not able to give in that department.

I do think she is depressed in some ways but she refuses to acknowledge my concerns even after some near disaster yesterday in the kitchen. I had to report it to our doc so family services may be taking a visit with us.


Depression or Bi-Polar can be a failure of yoru wife to adequately reject suggestions from other people in her life. By accepting the standars of another person, a sister, or other relative or high school friend, your wife may be leading herself into depression.

You wife may be associating with other people who either openly, or secretly, speak ill of you, in one respect or another.

I suggest an exercise. Every time your wife mentions a criticim, make not of the criticism. Then imagine someone saying some opinion to your wife, that wouild engender that criticism. Then devise a polite, bur firmly rejecting phrase, to a person who might say such a comment.


Switching to my wife, who criticizes me about religion, I could imaginge a preacher saying, "It must be hard living with a husband who hads not been truly Saved."

My suggestion to my wife might be, "Being sufficiently religious to enjoy al the benefits available in the afterp-life is matter of popular conjecture. What if you find out too late, that my religious, sectarian and personal practices are in fact, providing more benefits in the After-Life,than for those to whom you have been listening?"


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the cold reality

Postby stymied » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:19 pm

As my wife continues to read and then reread nearly all of Scott's books, she continues to remind me that our relationship started with a bad recipe. I continue to remind her that I am as solid as the granite counter, however the dating continues with the other man.
The grass unfortunately is not greener on the other side as 'he' will never be there for her as a caregiver or any financial support.
I did write her a letter that expressed my feelings and my wishes for the family. It also concluded that I have released her to do whatever she wishes. I cannot make her love me. Ultimately I can only be the best man I can be.

So here we are. She, threatening to take me to court if I do not settle our separation agreement, and I procrastinating to sign because we have property. She wants it all. My family believes I should set myself up to be the best father I can be when my son is with me. This would entail cashing in on our investments, which could leave my wife and son homeless. I am in a dilemma as to what I should do. Walk away and leave her to the property assets, or fight to 'get' half so I can support my son properly.

Nobody wins in divorce. Maybe the lawyers.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:47 pm

Maybe a spendthrift trust. Maybe let her have everything, just in a spendthrift trust over you son's lifetime. Might not take a lot of legal fees. Just an annuities expert.

Going after your wife as an unfit mother mght be disruptive for you Son. Maybe ettle the money, then just proportinally, wherever your son is staying that is who would receive more money, and let things take a natural course.


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