Things aren't working out, I'm at a loss.

Things aren't working out, I'm at a loss.

Postby Mommyof3 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:14 pm

I've been married for 10 years, we did things a little out of order, I got pregnant and then we got married. We have 3 sons, and there are a lot of issues here. My husband has totally changed from the guy I was dating and the guy I married to a guy that I am beginning to fear. He is mean to our oldest son and I feel like I have to get between them when our son wants to give him a hug, my husband gets angry. He's never been a great communicator, but he used to talk to me about his day and now he wont talk to me unless I verbally corner him (if that makes any sense.) I grew up in a scary home, and I am recognizing behaviors in my husband that where present in my stepfather just before he started beating my mom. I am waking up at night to unwanted sexual intercourse, so I'm not getting much sleep. I have been a stay at home mom for 10 years, I've tried talking to him and I feel like he's giving me guilt trips and cop-outs. I am willing to work on our marriage though I am not willing to be the only person working on our marriage, because that means it's just me back to bending over backwards and taking more of the same treatment.

I don't know what to do anymore.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:21 pm

One aspect you raise is the concept of the fear that your husband might start being abusive.

One option is to rehearse effective responses to abuse, so you feel that you are properly preapred, if abuse occurs. Search the Boring Baroque Response.

Another option, is to learn about the patterns that serve to reward and perpetuate abusive, or insonsiderate behavior. These rewards are counter-intuitive, so you will probably have to read Suzette Elgin, YOU CAN'T SAY THAT TO ME.. Basically Arguing, Condemning, ignoring and retaliation serve as incentives to establish the habit of abuse.

There is little recognition in your post, of the Man type values realting to yourhusband's contribugtion to the household. How do you help to boost your husband's ego?

Having 3 sons may make the coordination of marital time for enjoying each other, a bit of a challenge. Husbands are often not good mind readers. Are there times you could have fun, but your husband is missing the signals? Could you set up some codes for better communication?

Instead of intervening on behalf of your eldest son, with your husband, is there some way you could coach your son to practice being more assertive, yet respectful, in phrasing of his ideas? Any activities to get your son involved in roles in whch he might be more assertive? Sports, youth theatre, camp actvities, Scouts, etc? Does your son practice teh Boring Baroqe response?

You are probably smart to try to get ahead on these issues, before anything gets out of hand. It appears that you are early, and ahead the curve of serious problems.

It is often the case that one person feels that they are the only ones working on the marriage. You might try to give your husband credit for some of the time and dffort he makes to support the family, and earn money.

Here are some links to Secrets Threads, in case your searches don't tur up everything:



List of Secrets threads on verbal abuse before April 18, 2010
http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ight=abuse

Second post on this thread lists other threads and references on Verbal Abuse:
http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ight=abuse

Recent thread on Verbal abuse, with references, Second Post to Husband who was abusive, but whose wife has turned abusive.
http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ight=abuse
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Postby Mommyof3 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:26 pm

The fact is that I've always told him that I appreciate what he does because I know he does a lot to earn money and take care of the family financially. If I don't intervene between my husband and my 10 year old, my husband is almost punching our son, I am not willing to stand by and allow abuse to our child because he is having a bad day or a bad attitude. Its called "take a breather" not bend over backwards to make sure you don't look at daddy the wrong way.

Either way he's not talking to me anymore. Luckily he's stopped the unwelcome sexual activity while I'm trying to sleep. I don't know how long that is going to last though, because this has been ongoing.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:03 am

Does your husaband give a reasons why he is not talking to you?

Are there other ways you can give your husband respect?

I used to deliberately set up my father, when I was Ten Years Old. I would do something that I knew would upset my Dad, that my mother would either not see, or would not agree was a punsihable offense. After I got my father enraged, I would pretend innocence, which made my Dad madder, and got more sympathy from my mom. I was using shortcuts to get attention, which was similar to Love. As I matured, I try to recognize when I am seeking attention, because earning positive recogntion, is the better goal.

Can you better agree on the rules, for your Ten Year Old Son, about which your husband is going off on your son, and be a partner in establishing and enforcing the rules and boundaries?

It may be that criticizing your husband in front of your son is creating some resentment from your husband. You do not mention Time-Outs. Can you find some way to suport your husband, by agreeing on some loss of privileges strategy, so your husband feels he has your support in setting boundaries for your son, when he is over the limits for your husband?

I give examples from my family life, to illustrate problems, not as trying to give examples of the ideal solutions.


Chairs, Need/Desires of men from women


Here are some “Chairs” search results form the Secrets Forum


Post near the end of the thread, wife not experiencing passion in marital relations

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs



Post 2 and further on, Wife feels she is doing everything right in the marriage, and household, but husband does not like to engage in conversation, and does not really like to be at home.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs


Last Post Page 1, Wife asks how to get more from her marriage, and what is important to husbands in marriage.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs


3rd post. Attractive wife with 3 children complains that her husband has lost interest in marital relations.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpB ... ght=chairs

Search Love and Respect
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Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:45 am

One aspect of the difficulties with our husband is that you do not seem to have a coordinated parenting strategy for your eldest, 10 year old son,

My wife and I always got along better after we attended a parenting course together, they we were at least using the same terms and concepts to discuss our different parenting styles.

Ther are many books and DVD's on Parenting. Many are geared for specific ages. You do not mention the differences inyour parenting styles, and how the differences can be better addressed.

It does not sound like you and your husband have a coordinated set of rules, and sanctions for rule violations. Rules help everyone get on the same page. My wife used to let me make the rules, but she would find exceptions to the rules, or make points with our children by criticizing the rules I had made, that were inconvenient for our children.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:12 am

Your local public library will have many books and DVD's on parenting. You will probably find something of value in many of the books and DVD's, but you will also find strategies that won't seem to work for you. I try out a stratgegy for a couple weeks, to see if I can make it work.

Here are some Refereces that turned up for Google on Parenting, I am familiar wtih Gary Smalley.





Web MD Article
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/10 ... -teenagers



Gary Smalley
http://www.iquestions.com/video/view/218


Parenting with Dignity
http://www.parentingwithdignity.com/




It might deflate your husband's Ego, when you disagree with your husband in front of the children. To the extent that you can iron out differences in parenting strategies in private, in a planning session, things might go better.




//
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Postby Mommyof3 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:52 pm

I don't play games between my kids and my husband. The only time that it could be considered me blasting him in front of the kids is when I get between my 10 year old and my husband, I pick up my 10 year old and take him upstairs. I don't correct him in front of the kids because that would be wrong. At this point I have no interest in boosting his ego. Why would I have to boost his ego when all I get is crap for the things I do, or how I never do them right? Why should I continue to give him recognition when I never get any in return other then when I am wrong?

He says he never talks to me anymore because he doesn't want to. He told me he would rather talk to a woman at work. About the only thing he has told me is that he doesn't want me to leave, but he doesn't want to talk to me or figure things out with me.

I don't even know why I want to work things out to be honest with you. Yes I do love him. I just feel like my life is falling apart, I want to go to marriage counseling or go to a marriage encounter weekend and work on our communication and he isn't interested. I get "Why should I go with you to work on our communication when I am talking with somebody else." I know that my first post was the clif notes version of what is going on right now. It just hurts a lot right now.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:24 am

Can you find some comfortable phrases, to display respect, like, "Thanks for the effort you made to earn money at work today." when he gets home,

If your husband makes a suggestion, or criticism, could you have some responses rehearsed like, "That is a good idea, and you are good at recognizing the ideal strategies. Could you give me somerecognition for my effort to ..............?"

There are DVD's on marriage weekends, so you don't actually have to go to a retreat to receive the information. Search Love and Respect.

The Theory of Dr. Eggerich is that if a wife wants more Love, she can get more love, by giving more respect to her husband. The reason to boost your husband's ego, is so that he will give you more Love.
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Hmmm

Postby Scott Haltzman » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:41 pm

Gee, Mom of 3,

It's a tough situation. I feel bad for you. It's hard to know from your point of view what may be driving these perceived changes in your husband's behavior. When people have dramatic changes in their personalities, it's often on the basis of something bigger than just a relational problem, such as substance abuse (or gambling or pornography addiction) or depressive episode. It's also quite possible, that these changes might be on the basis of having an affair. In all these cases, severe changes in behavior may happen without any cause and effect related to the marriage. I would think the first step in helping to make sense of the changes in your relationship hard to figure out whether any of these issues are happening with him.

I think the problem for many men is they don't like to be confronted about the changes that their wives are seeing because it feels like a criticism on the part of the wife. It sounds like his attempts to have sex with you in the middle of the night feel quite offensive and upsetting to you, but I wonder whether this is an effort on his part to try to bond with you. From his point of view, he doesn't seem to be able to find a way to be able to have sex with you while you are still awake. I'm not excusing his behavior, just, perhaps try to see it in a different light and wonder whether suggests that he is still trying to make some type of connection with you. Admittedly, this new information about "the other woman," and his refusal to engage in any dialogue with you, does begin to suggest that it may be on the basis of some kind of an affair.

N.B. Discussions by Scott Haltzman are not intended to represent therapy, advice or a therapeutic relationship, but are presented to foster discussion.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:19 am

Dear Mommof3,

There are counter-intuitive principles that occur in marriages and marital problems. My posts are intended to explain in more detail, how the counter-intuitive principles might apply to your marriage. I have arrived at a number of compromises in my marriage, based upon those counter-intuitive principles. I am not advocating that my compromises, in my marriage, are ideal for any one else's marriage. But I encourage spouses to gain a fuller understanding of how the non-obvious principles might apply, to develop compromises for their own marriage.

The Men's secrets book devotes two chapters to explining to husbands, the importance of listening to their wives. What occurs to me, when I hear you complain tha your husband does not talk to you, is that what you might really want/need, if for your husband to listen to you for some minutes a day.

You might ask your husband to give you a little venting time, if he is unwilling to talk to you. It is possible that you are like many women, who need some unconditional listening time, every so often. You might start out with Two Minnutes, once in a while, and see if you can increast the time, over a few weeks. It may not be important that your husband talk to you more. It is not obvious, or common knowledge, nor generally accepted in the society, that wives need some venting time. However, Communication is often part of marriage counseling.




//
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Postby Mommyof3 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:02 pm

Mild update... My husband is now wanting to start dating a 20 year old woman. I'm not sure how to feel about this recent development, other then it is strange. And yes this is the young woman he has been talking to. I think I am still in too much shock to be upset. To be honest I feel rather numb, and also dumb.
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Postby ThunderHorse » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:51 am

Mommyof3 wrote: I grew up in a scary home, and I am recognizing behaviors in my husband that where present in my stepfather just before he started beating my mom.

...and I feel like he's giving me guilt trips and cop-outs. I am willing to work on our marriage though I am not willing to be the only person working on our marriage, because that means it's just me back to bending over backwards and taking more of the same treatment.

I don't know what to do anymore.




Mommyof3 wrote:
At this point I have no interest in boosting his ego. Why would I have to boost his ego when all I get is crap for the things I do, or how I never do them right? Why should I continue to give him recognition when I never get any in return other then when I am wrong?



.



It seems logical to withhold Ego Boosts from your husband, when he is being critical of you.

However, the reason that many inconsiderate or abusive spouses are hurtful to their spouse, is because they are PROJECTING. That is, the abusive spouse feels inadequate, or lacks confidence, in themselves. Verbal abuse is often a request for an Ego Boost. One path to feeling better, or boosting self-confidence, is to criticize someone else.

So if the reason your husband is critical to you, is becuase he feels inadequate about himself, the solution to his verbal abuse is to find some other way for him to feel better about himself.

One rsponse that has been found to be effective, Elgin, is the Boring Baroque Response. I have added the compliments to the abusive spouse, from my experience. Blithering, softly spoken, compliments of barely related issues to the verbal abuse is helpful to making the abusive spouse feel better about themselves, and stop being abusive.

Finding other ways to be respectful to the inconsiderate spouse, is Eggerich. There are many ways that wives often overlook, to give husbands respect.


What sports interests your husband? What teams does he support? Can you and your sons become fans of the team he is interested in? Fotball season is starting, the World Seires of Baseball is coming up, Hockey Fall Training is starting. Most wives are not interested in sports, but it is a simple way to show respect to a husband.

Wives today have a conflict, because the religous teachings suggesting women should respect men, have been challenged, and over-ridden by women's rights movements and thinking. So the reason you "SHOULD" respect your husband, even when he is inconsiderate to you, is because people get married to find someone to be considerate to them.

Women have made strides in the Vote, Politics and the workplace, in the last 100 years, and probably religious writings have not kept abreast to take into account modern thinking. But marriage has been an instituition for thousands of years, and there is some wisdom in religious teachings. Religious teachings generally suggest the wife should repsect the husband. Your own internal model, from your mother, apparently was not successful in avoiding verbal and physical abuse in her second marriage. So you have to develop a style, on your own, of giving consideration to your husband, to keep his interest in your marriage.

There is a book SURVIING AN AFFAIR

Best wishes

..
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Postby ThunderHorse » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:46 pm

Mommyof3 wrote:Mild update... My husband is now wanting to start dating a 20 year old woman. I'm not sure how to feel about this recent development, other then it is strange. And yes this is the young woman he has been talking to. I think I am still in too much shock to be upset. To be honest I feel rather numb, and also dumb.


Plan A is trying to work things out in a pleasant manner. Plan B is setting some conditions and separating, until the conditions are met.

Pal B condtions might be a no-contact letter for the co-worker, a set of rules for the boys, and an agreement to avoid verbal abuse. The purpose of Plan B is to perserve your love for your husband, and to protect yourself and your children from emotional upset.

I have been posting as if you might be interested in finding some ways to extend consideration to your husband, with the hopes that he would reciprocate, and be more considerate of you and the boys.

You have not mentioned your plans for Plan B and a separation. It might be helpful for your personal outlook, to have a plan for separation thought out, and ready to impliment, if it seemed time for Plan B. You might seek legal advice about the laws regarding separations in your jurisdiction. I am not recommending Plan B, at this time, from what you have disclosed, but I do not have enough information to really know.

I am still of the belief that ther are some easy things that you could do to extend highly meaningful consideration to your husband, and the he might respond positively.


All Blessings



//
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Postby ThunderHorse » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:09 pm

Mommyof3 wrote:Mild update... My husband is now wanting to start dating a 20 year old woman. I'm not sure how to feel about this recent development, other then it is strange. And yes this is the young woman he has been talking to. I think I am still in too much shock to be upset. To be honest I feel rather numb, and also dumb.



Here is a start for a no-contacgt letter, from your husband to his co-worker.


Dear Co-Worker,

Thank you for letting me share my concerns and challenges with you over the past few months, while my wife and I have been less considerate and cooperative with each other, than we could have been.

I now see my resonsiblities more clearly, and my wife has agreed to try to be more considerate and cooperative with our family needs. I have agreed to be a better leader of making reasonable rules for your children to follow, and to avoid expressing irritation, if the established rules are not being broken.

For now, I need to give my wife the attention she deserves, and a feeling of loyalty that comes with a more exclusive relationship. So I ask for your understanding, that I must cut back my conversations with you, to limit our talking to company business, and maybe the weather. I promise to be cordial to you, and hold you in high esteem, but I must work on my marriage, and I need to limit my conversation with you, for the forseeable future..
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Postby Scott Haltzman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:40 pm

Hey Mom of 3--
That really sucks! But it explains a lot. Many people feel they've found their soul mate outside of marriage, but usually it ends up being a lot less than is what's promised. But you can't convince them/him of it at the time.
Hang tough!
Scott
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