Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marriage.

Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marriage.

Postby needing direction » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:29 pm

So a little back ground on my situation. (I also understand that every story has 2 sides, and this is mine as I recall the facts). I have been married 8.5 years, after dating my wife for about 8 months. We have a beautiful 7 year old daughter. In the last 11 months my wife has lost roughly 40 lbs (a good thing), but in the mean time has been spending a lot of time on the social fitness app and online chat rooms since March. Me being me I didn't really pay a lot of attention to this until it was blatantly obvious that something wasn't right. At this point we weren't communicating other than who is getting our daughter from school or what's for dinner. So since our communication was broken, I ask one night after dinner, "are we okay"? Which turned in to a disastrous conversation! That then flipped a switch in my head of suspicion that she may be cheating on me, (those thoughts were never in my mind about her before) until then. Was it how the conversation went or how I interpreted her message, I don't know. But that break down in communication sent me in to a serious state of over reaction. I was always suspicious of who she was talking to, and checking her computer logs looking for anything I could to make myself not feel crazy. I never found anything and when my wife found out she put a log in with password on her profile blocking me out. (I know this is a lot but I'm almost done)

We have had many heated arguments over this, she says I shouldn't doubt that she loves me and hasn't cheated on me in any way. But in my snooping on her social fitness app. she would make comments about being a single Mom and referring to me as her Ex. When I confronted her about this her response was, she was using this as a way to get away from her mundane existence she felt like she was in. And that she didn't mean any of it. Since then I have bought Secrets of happily married Men. It has shed a lot of light in to what I can do for my marriage. But now I am being tested in a way I'm not sure I can handle.

My wife bought a plane ticket to AZ. to go see a female friend that she has befriended on her social fitness site. She will also be meeting up with other friends that are guys on this trip. I agreed to give it my blessing when we first discussed it. Since then my wife has said she wants us to take a break from intimacy and focus on our relationship. That if we focus on that then the intimacy will come back. So I realize there is a lot to read through but still not a lot to fairly go by... I need direction, advise and thoughts.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, need dirction
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:21 am

I should have mentioned that we still say I love you and kiss every morning before leaving for work and at night before bed. But we both still feel like something is a miss. Is it me, have I allowed my mind to over react and make this into something that's not there?
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby Scott Haltzman » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:53 pm

Dear Needing,

Thanks for reading The Secrets of Happily Married Men. If you've covered the book then you know that there's nothing in it to help you with THIS situation. Because the book is about saving marriage when you're the only one in your wife's life, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

My upcoming book is about infidelity, and much of it addresses how setting appropriate boundaries is so important. Frankly, if one partner is spending time online claiming to be single/have an ex- then this is much more than just escapism. If a guy finds his wife shooting up heroin in the bathroom and she says she wants to get away from a mundane existence, would that be OK. This kind of behavior can be just as dangerous as drugs to your marriage and your families' marriage.

One of the hallmarks of infidelity, even if it's "flirting," or "emotional infidelity," is lying. If visiting these people was not big deal, then why not bring you along (and leave your daughter with the in-laws).

No easy answer about what to do, but I firmly believe that very few people can successfully work on a marriage while they are playing the field. A good long discussion is necessary, calling a spade a spade, and not permitting an unfaithful spouse to escape accountability.

good luck! -Scott

N.B. Comments offered by Scott Haltzman are not offered as therapy or advice, rather as a means to foster discussion on this forum/message board.
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:42 am

Dr. Holtzman, I sincerely appreciate your taking time out of your busy schedule to answer my post. Since I have no hard evidence of cheating emotional or otherwise, how do I address this?
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby Scott Haltzman » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:32 pm

You don't have to have "evidence" of infidelity, but you can have expectations of what it means to stay within acceptable bounds of marital expectations and what does not.
Within bounds is
-- transparency (no secret email accounts or hidden phone calls)
-- companionship (efforts should be made to spend time together and to have sexual relationships)

out of bounds is:
-- opposited-sexed friends who are not permitted to be friends with you
-- saying one is "single" or that a current spouse is an "ex" to ANYONE for any reason

I understand that people often have different expectations, so that one partner might easily say, "I wouldn't mind if if YOU said you were an ex on a chat room, so why should it bother you if I do?" The point here is that whichever partner has the more stringent criteria for what it means to cross the line, within reason, should be respected. That's where the conversation comes in, and, subsequently, deciding what to do about it.
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:14 pm

Dr. Haltzman, I talked to my wife 2 days before she was to leave for AZ. I told her I didn't feel it was good for our relationship. Her response to that was she isn't happy and doesn't know why. She doesn't know if she wants a divorce or otherwise. Our conversation ended with her stating that she was still going (and did), then said she needed to leave. She was gone about an hour then came home and went to bed. The next morning she started making small talk, of which I wasn't in the mood for. But I engaged her when she addressed me in conversation. As I write this post she has been in AZ for 3 days, and has made ZERO attempts to contact me or our 7 y/o daughter. I feel like I'm bouncing between feeling sick to my stomach and dreading to her return, to wondering how things will go when she does return. Not sure how I should act when she gets home. Do I ignore her until she decides to discuss our problem, or do I take the high road and address her first (with any sort of conversation)? Really needing advise and direction!
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby Scott Haltzman » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:23 pm

Needing, I'm sorry but I'm really not in a position to give advice. Maybe other readers of this forum can give advice. I think you should go back and read your posts, and ask yourself what you should do.
Keep us posted.
-Scott
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:22 am

If your wife wants to make small talk, have you given her 15 min per day of listening? Ideas for Listening Skills are in a thread under commiunications.

The Love diet means contacting your woman 3 times a day with sweet nothings.

How can you have a heated argument, without speaking to your wife in an unloving manner?

What compliments do you give your wife? There is a thread for Compliments in the Communication section.

What ways do you have of giving your wife various stages of foreplay? Massage skills?

There are two chapers in the Husband's secrets books on listening skills. What strategies are options for your improving your listening skills? What compliments have you given your wife about her mothering skills for your daughter?




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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:13 am

Post AZ trip. My wife and I have talked, she has admitted to sleeping with this "guy" in AZ. After controlling the urge to want to puke, I asked her what she wanted? Her response is "I don't know". That was her response to everything I asked including whether she was sorry and going to stop talking to this guy. So I said, "If we were going to work she had to cut out any and all communication with him and end all social sites at this time until further notice. She got mad because I was giving an ultimatum. She said she needs time to figure out what I want, and that I need to stop being snarky to her because it isn't helping. So my reply was, I am willing to start the process of forgiving if she stopped all communication with the guy, or I wanted a divorce.

Make no mistake, I still love my wife, but I will not tolerate her still talking to this guy, of which she says she has since her AZ trip.

Did I go to far to fast? Should I give her time because she is in such a funk she doesn't know what she wants? How should I act toward her? Because snarky is about the only way I feel like acting right now!!!!!!!!!!

I am begging for thoughts and insight on this. From anyone who maybe has gone through this or anyone with an honest opinion on my problem.

P.S. Dr. Haltzman, Even though you can't offer up any advicce. I have gone back and re-read all posts and comments from me, and you. Your posts are of grand wisdom, but I'm still conflicted on what to do.
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:37 pm

Harley has a book on recovering from an affair.

There is Plan A and Plan B.

Plan A is where you continue to be pleasant, and try to meet your spouse's needs, and offer to make concessions.

Plan B is where you cut off communication until certain condtions are met.

Often a No Contact letter is part of the condtions for Plan B to end. The No Contact letter is sent to the person with whom the indiscretions occurred, describing limited conditons for contact,

How are you coming at controlling your anger? How are you coming at giving her the listenting time she needs every day?

How are you coming at developing ocmpliments for your wife's parenting skills for your daughter?

Seduction begins when you walk in the door. For women, little compliments, or showing ocncern, or short caresses, indication love are an important part of foreploay.

It seems to me you are using your marriage as a place to vent your personal frustrations with life.

One objective of counseling, for yourself, could be how you could make the home more a safe place for your wife to avoid criticism. As I read between the lines, I see you seem to have a lot of criticism that you express to your wife. Why not widen the scope of seduction to flirting with your wife?

Your wife telling you about an affair is something like verbal abuse. You should be sure you have reviewed your skills in handling verbal abuse, so you do not unintentionally reward the behaviors of her being abusive to you. How are you having heated arguments with your wife, if she is not being somewhat abusive to you? If you are yelling back at her, you are giving that behavior an unitenitonal reward. You have not read Elgin.



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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:56 am

It seems that you are trying to have sex with your wife, without bothering with the early stages of seduction.

It seems that your wife is being rewarded by your consternation, with her refusal of your advances. It seems that your wife is setting you up, so that you will continue to reward her, with your being upset.

To save a marriage in a destructive cycle of upsets, one partner needs to stop the reward cycle, and start being polite and caring.



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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:12 pm

Thunderhorse, I am currently working on my communication skills, but it seems every attempt I make gets a skeptical look from my wife. When we spoke when she got back from AZ, I told her that I was having a hard time knowing that I asked her not to leave because it wasn't good for our marriage, and her response was "You never asked me not to leave". And i know my communication skills aren't great but I said exactly that, I don't want you to go because I don't think it is good for our marriage.

I have had a few days now to try and think and process what has gone on. But I feel like I am maybe more confused than day 1. I have more love in my heart for her than I do hate, but I still feel the hurt. Since I bought the book I am making a real effort to listen, and make sure I complement her more. But when I do she keeps asking why now. And that was before she cheated on me.

Now we talk and it is civil, and we are sleeping in the same bed. But she has stated that she doesn't know what she wants, i asked her if she is still talking to this guy. And as of 11/13/12 she said yes she does. So the thoughts of should we separate and I move out come in to my mind. I don't want to but I feel like if she was sorry for what she did, she wouldn't be talking to this guy.
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:50 pm

Thunderhorse, I would agree with everything you just said in your most recent post. In taking your advice in one of your other post I am going to practice the 180 degrees divorce busting. Whether it works or not in turning my marriage around I need to do this for me! Do you think this will be a good move? If so then I think attempting intimacy at this time is off the table. Besides how do I get the thoughts of her infidelity out of my mind to want to be intimate with her again?
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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:57 am

Listening skills are encouaraging her to vent. If she says she does not know wheat she wants, then she is talking and you are succeeding in getting her to talk.

A No Contaact letter could read, "I am trying to work things out with my marriage for the sake of my daughter. I request that you not contact me, ans understand that I will not be contacting you."

Listening does not mean that your wife will remember anything of what you might say.

I have explained my jeoulusy to my wife by explaining that jealousy is part of love. I am not ashamed of my jeoulusy, and not ashamed of my love.

"Why Now" is that you can explain that you are continuaously trying to be a better husband, and find more effective ways to show your love to her.

Do not worry about understanding what your wife talks about, just find questions to get her to discuss her feelings. Just ask more questions to get her to talk more. If her comments are abusive or inconsiderate, use the Boring Baroque response, then give her time to talk more.

If your wife syas, "You did not ask me not to go to Arizona" that seems abvusive, and requires a Boring Baroque Response. Silence indicates consternation. "Well, I thought I remembered telling you that I thought it would be better for the marriage if you did not go to Arizona, but of course now I wish I had been more emphatic in expressing my feelings of misgivings about your tirp, and I believe it is best for bringing up our daughter with good moral examples that we try to take vacations together, and now I wish I had taken time off work to go with you, etc, etc."

How are you coming at understanding verbal foreplay of listening, leading to a short caress? Back Massage?

How does your extension of foreplay get rejected? I get rejected, at various points on occasion, but I view the rejction as an apportunity to back off, and let affection build up in my wife. Women have cycles of building affection, of 3 to 7 minutes. Are you able to find cycles to begin earlier stages of foreplay, then pleasantly back off when ther is a rejection?

I think your wife is vervbally abusive to you, and you are using silence as a response, and not understanding that silence is a reward for abuse. There is a thread under Communicaiton, "My Wife is Hyper Critical, Please Help" Suzette Elgin has several books on verbal abuse.

http://www.secretsofmarriedmen.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=385

I try to colloect my input on Verbal abuse on that thread, and I will copy this post on that thread. I may be wrong, but if your wife is coming home, then I think there is hope.

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Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:35 am

180 Degree Divorce Busters can help you keep your sanity. Just change things for the sake of change, to demonstrate that you can change. A common basis for marital problems and divrce, is the belief by one spouse, that their cannot and will not change, in ways to please them. Then they give up on the marriage

Dr. Haltzman has expressed the idea that trying to go too far with foreplay, when you are working on serious problems in your marriage, can be a mistake. I don't know what stages you are receiveing STOP signals, but I do recommend backing off quickly, immediately, if there are signals of non-receptivity.

Some of my best marital sex has come after intense arguments, but I do not recommend starting arguments. I still try to encourage venting from my wife, even when she is intense, and focused on me. I often have to reapproach, after letting 3 to 7 minutes time have passed.

You have not revealed whether a 3 second caress for her back is meeting with signals of britstling.

It is important to recognize if your wife is a serial abuser, because ordinarily, it is good to listen to your wife's complaints as requests for change. The verbally abusive spouse, is often not giving true complaints, but rather is just making hurtful comments. So the selction of how to upset you, may have nothing to do, with what she really wants changed. So before making a change. based on what a serial verbally abusive spouse has said, it is necessary to figure out if what was said, was just for effect (Getting you upset).

I have failed to get you to verbalize the concept of your power to select an optimal attitude for expressing your ideas which are generating feelings of upset or anger. The Boring Baroque Response, sing-song ideas in boredon, have been difficult for me to practice, becase I am not naturally bored; I constanly find intersting things to think about. When your wife talks about her affair in AZ, some prhases might be, "I'd rather we talk about someting else, because I feel hurt when that subject comes to mind, so I would rather put that situation behind me, as I would put any love making before we were married, and I would like for us to try to be good role models for our daughter's moral thionking" etc etc... you cannot control the feelings that come up in your experiences, but it is a choice in selecting the attitude, or mind set, with which you respond, or present your ideas.

A No Contact letter from your wife to the AZ Guy could read, "I am trying to work on my marriage for the sake of my 7 year Old Daughter. If I have hurt you I appologize. But I ask that you not contact me, and understand that I will not be contacting you, so that I can keep things from getting out of hand, and otherwise better resist temptation."



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