Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marriage.

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby lighthouse » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:19 pm

If I understood you correctly, it seems to me that your wife is losing interest in your marriage, which is making you wonder how did it come to this? I believe you also said that she wants to take a break from the intimacy part of your marriage to focus on the relationship in general. You also have suspicion that she may be cheating on you, which is never good.

I read that you purchased Dr. Haltzman’s, Secrets of Happily Married Men, I am taking a Social Psychology class this semester and we just read about his work. I think if you read the “Know Your Wife” section of his book it may help. Dr. Haltzman says, “If something works for me, it must work for my wife, right? Wrong. It’s likely that your wife and you see practically everything differently.” Dr. Haltzman makes a good point on the communication aspect of the situation, “A bouquet of flowers may not mean much to you, so it may seem like a colossal waste of money to send them. But that’s not the way your wife sees it.”

When he talks about men thinking women are like them, no offense to you, but I disagree. I believe men think that women are as easy to please as men are; but sorry to tell you, we’re not. Maybe, to get your wife to see that you want things to be better, you could send her chocolates or bring home a gift. Surprise your wife, show her you still care.

I would reread Dr. Haltzman’s book and really think about what he is suggesting. You could also try to come up with something to do with your wife, something that you both like, and try to rebuild your relationship from the ground up.
lighthouse
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:25 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:21 pm

Thunder Horse, I have had a chance to read all your posts, I also took a break due to the Thanksgiving Holiday. Of which my wife and I agreed to talk afterward so it wouldn't ruin our Thanksgiving with family coming to town. Here is where it gets complicated. While her family was in town things were as if nothing was wrong, the wife would refer to me as honey or babe and we even sat on the same over sized chair and we would lay her legs across mine. To be honest, it felt great! We hadn't done something like that in forever. There felt like there wasn't any tension. But when her family left and our daughter went to bed, we had "the talk". My wife stated that she felt we needed to do something. I asked if she wanted a divorce and said she didn't know, she said that when she looks at the future she doesn't see anything. That she is unhappy and doesn't know why and that what she has now isn't working for her. So she brought up separation. I said I would consider it if it was for the purpose of working on our relationship and marriage. She said that she doesn't think we can go back to that way things were and make them work. I told her I agreed, and that I didn't want to go back to the way things were either. It was not working for our marriage. but that I did want to fight for us and not end up divorced. I asked her if she had any fight left to fight for us and she just looked at me and cried, she didn't say yes or no. When she asked what I wanted, I stood up and gave her a big hug and with eyes full of tears I said I wanted to fight.

I don't know what to do. Do I move out and try the separation, does this display that I want to fight for us? I think my wife wants me give up and move on for some reason. I don't want to. There have been times where I have made mistakes in our marriage and she could have left me and with good reason. But she didn't, I feel I owe it to her, myself and our family to stay and fight. I feel as if a family member is on lie support and that feeling of what if I pull the plug to soon!?!?!?! I don't want to abandon the woman I love in this time crisis and confusion. Am I wrong here? Am I being fool hardy and naive?

I need help from anyone reading this that is willing to offer constructive advise.
needing direction
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:52 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby pfoster » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:04 pm

As a married man, you became concerned about your wife’s fidelity after probing around her social network applications, and discovering that she describes herself as a single mom, and you as her ‘ex’. After you confronted her, you said she claims she is faithful and that she is only doing this because it was her way to get away from her “mundane existence”. Although no real bad crime has been committed this is certainly a red flag for your relationship. Shouldn't you two be escaping the real world together? Shouldn't you at least be mentioned as her husband, not an ex? Why does she create this alternate world, does it have to do with a current lack of trust; the snooping around?

Dr. Scott talks about emotional infidelity, or emotional affair, and had to say this about it; “it is defined as the growth of a strong psychological bond between two individuals that are not in a committed relationship when one of the two is already in a committed relationship.” A classic reason for an emotional affair is to create emotional distance in the marriage.

If she is referring herself to single, and you as her ex, there are few underlying reasons for her actions. It may be that she is asking for your attention; if she is not receiving it, she is looking to get it from someone else, or she wants to leave but can’t (keeping you around as a back up until she finds a new person), or she’s looking to have something of her own, or there are present trust issues. These examples may be pushing her to make up a more appealing alternate life scenario in her social networks. If this excels, the possibility of her having an emotional affair with someone else increases. You two need to sit down, discover what went wrong and find out if you can fix it.

Glad you picked up on this, but what made you snoop around in the first place? Could it have been that exact lack of trust that is making her do this? Granted there are many scenarios, backgrounds, and reasons for a false online profile but an escape from a normal life is not one of them. There is something clearly wrong within the relationship. Ask her what is the logic behind it, what is it that drove her to do this, explain to her what it does to you, and see if its something you can fix. People say you shouldn't have to change in a relationship. However there are small things individuals do need to alter, i.e. a certain habit, in order to make things ‘work’ better. I don’t know the whole situation, but it could be something you are overlooking to do. Pay attention to what she likes, when she vents listen instead of offering solutions. Men rather had direct explanations and solutions while women like to vent in detail, and just have you listen. Talk about it; communication is KEY. Find time to escape out of the house together, so she’s not subjected to the computer.


P.S. I am a current psychology student, please take no offense to any of the advice above. I found it extremely unsettling when I found out about your wife's actions. I am sorry you had/have to go through that. Think of your child, and what is best. Some children adapt well to separated parents; less argument, less tension and more positive environment and focus on the right things. And again, some may take it very wrong. Look at your child, speak with her, know her better and perhaps find out if it is better to be together or separate.

Sometimes a good old 'flashback' is good. What I mean is go back in time, think of something the two of you used to do together, something that brought you together. For example; cooking breakfast, reading the same book, talking about memories/stories by the fire place, things that include interaction and/or teamwork. And make an oath to work at it or do it together almost everyday. You'll find yourself remembering things from way back that warm your heart again, and hopefully will remind her of why she fell in love. maybe you twoo will laugh and enjoy one another, and this should bring you to a comfortable point where you can bring up, "hey hun, i know where in an unsettling/rough/bumpy part in our lives but which ever way it goes, hopefully the best route, could you tell me what has been going through your mind that has maybe something to do with whats been going on?" and from there, you should try to fix it, together.
-P. Foster
pfoster
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:10 am

Needing Direction:

I beleive you are listening to your wife's words of uncertainty, as uncerntainty. I think that communication is your wife expressing her ideas to you, and therfore, you are successful.

You think because your wife is telling you ideas of uncertainty about the marriage, that YOU should be uncertain about the marriage. I beleive that If you are able to get your wife to express ideas, 15 minutes a day, that you have a working marriage. Encouraging you wife to express her ideas, and worrying about the range of her ideas, are two different operations.

Certainly analyze what she says for ideas of how you can do better. I say that if she comes home at night, you have a marriage.

Women want to be seduced, and I believe you need to focus on seducing your wife, from the moment you walk in the door.

You have not detailed any sequence of rejection, or early foreplay. There are probably times to avoid all 3 second caresses expressions of affection. What happens when you give her a 3 second massage on her back? Convince me that I am wrong.

Just do your job as a husband. Listen to her vent any and all ideas, and show her love. If she does not move out, you are still married.




//
ThunderHorse
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:38 am

Needing Direction:

You say you had a talk with your wife, but I do not see what you asked her for.

You say she does not want to have sex, but women generally do not want to have sex, until she is arroused to verious levels.

What type of sex do you want? What about more children? Your wants, her wants? What forms of sex are satisfactory to you, and what is the top of the line?

What levels of cooperation are ideal, acceptable, frustrating? What are some options to relieve your frustration, and how can you present your ideas of what you would like, in various levels, so you can present some condepts to your wife as compromises?

I do not hear any options for compromise.


//
ThunderHorse
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:55 am

Your wife is being hurtful, and you need to use the Boring Baroque response. Insinuating more infidelty, separation or divorces is hurtful. Do you see you are dispalying nomral feeling of hurt and perpetuating your wife's hurting you more?

Divorce is difficult, and expensive.

Husbands need to do witohout sex, to be able to get more sex, because the Power of a husband is increased by being able to handle the frustration of his wife not being in the mood. Power is a afrodesiac.

Your inner child would like to enjoy sex, but you should have the skills to arouse your wife to beg for sex herself.



//
ThunderHorse
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:26 am

P. Foster, thank you for taking the time to review my situation. I am looking for any input possible on my situation.

So let me run this by you and any one else following this right now. My wife has stated that she thinks we should separate. But the only time it gets brought up is if i bring it up. I do this because I don't want her to think I pushing her feelings aside or ignoring them. Should I wait the next time for her to bring it up?

Also, I think I have had a break through on how she feels. Up until last night I would always get an I don't know why I'm not happy. Last night I asked again if she still thought we should separate? She said she thought we needed to, I said what I have been. If it was for the purpose of working on our marriage and relationship, I would do it to give her space, not because I wanted to, but because I didn't want to down play or ignore how she feels. During this conversation is when she finally said that she feels lost and doesn't know who she is anymore. I think this gives me a shed of light on how she is feeling, and it's a lot more than the I don't know I've been getting.

So I said I could empathize how she could be unhappy if she feels like she doesn't know who she is anymore, and feels confused while searching for answers. So could or is this a mid-life crisis? I also asked for her time so I could read her something, it was a card she gave me from when we were dating and going through a rough patch. P. Foster, I thank you for the idea. I was able to read her words for how she felt about me. I told her that I knew she loved me and at any point before now I have given her reasons to leave and she never did. And that now I'm not going to leave. That I was in it for the long road to recovery, that it wasn't going to be easy. I also said that we are both hard workers and that I was ready to roll my sleeves up and get to work on making us better. I went from telling her how much I love her, to trying to remind her of how she felt toward me, and with work we could get that back. I also said that I wanted her to think of 2 things for me. Would she be willing to let me forgive her for the infidelity and would she be willing and able to let me love and adore her? During this whole conversation, she just looked straight ahead and had tears in hers eyes but never said anything. I'm not sure how to take that, but I would rather have the silence (thinking it got her wheels turning) than for her to just shut me down. What are your thoughts and or comments/advise on this?

Also, since I laid all this out there, do I wait for her to bring it up next?

Thanks in advance,
Needing Direction
needing direction
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:52 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:04 pm

ThunderHorse,

I get what you are saying I think. At least about her expressing what she wants whether it be about separation and anything else (it's at least dialog). But it only gets discussed if I bring it up. We agreed on a Sunday to discuss that following Tuesday the possibility of separating our bank accounts until we figured what we are going to do relationship wise. I didn't say anything on Wednesday and it never got discussed. So on Thursday I asked about it and she said that I never brought it up. My response to her was it was her idea and that I was waiting for her to bring it up. So my question is, if she wants the separation or to have separate accounts, then should I wait for her to bring it up since it's her idea? Or do I so I let her know I'm listening?

Also, on the sex part. I tried initiating foreplay 2 weeks before she left for AZ, and got the old I just want to go to bed speech. I have not tried since the AZ trip since things have been complicated...... My wife does not like massages. I found this out in the dating phase when I bought her and I SPA passes and she said that it felt like her skin was getting rubbed off. We did have a talk the other night where I told her I was fighting for our marriage and we hugged and both cried, and the hugs was a very close hug between the both of us. So I don't know if that's a good sign or not. As for now I'm so caught up in the mind set of keeping myself sane, and making sure our daughter doesn't get lost in all this. I honestly haven't thought much about sex.

I'm also don't see me as the guy girls swoon over (although my wife is very attractive) I'm not sure how to seduce women to want sex for themselves from me. I'm just a dumb fireman...!
needing direction
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:52 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:16 am

To Needing Direction:

Analasys is also a reward for hurtful remarks. It seems you have progressed from arguing, and expressing anger, which are also rewards for hurtful remarks.

It is hurtful for your wife to talk about not knowing who she is. She is your wife, and the mother of your 7 year old daughter.

So if you are discussing separtion, and discussing her not knowing who she is, in ordinary calm terms, you are still feeding into her destructive behavior. You have not reported about trying the boring response, so I assume you have not perfected that yet.

Boring Baroque Sing, Song tone response ideas: "Sometimes it helps to have a separation for some couples. It did not seem to help our marriage when you went to Arizona, so I would prefer to see if I can find ways to help you avoid separation. Our daughter has strong attachments to you, and both of us, so I would like to support our daughter as best we can. Certainly being a Mother and a wife is not always easy, and takes some work and sacrifice of some of our ideas, but there is satisfaction of being a better husband and working to become a better father gives me a feeling of self fulfillment, and I hope you will get a feeling of satisfaction of being an even better momm to our daughter, and doing what you can to keep her father available closer, for high levels of support for her.



//
ThunderHorse
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:00 am

If your wife has brought up a hurtful subject, like separating bank accounts, you can just let it drop. The idea is that women just need to vent. So once they have expressed an idea, then that may be the last you will hear of it. Or maybe your woman will bring up an idea for several days in a row, or bring it once a week. The husband's job of listening, is to analyze the idea to yourself, and see what you feel will be helpful, or in the best interests of the marriage, or in your own best interests. But ordinarily, you should not bring up hurtful subjects, if your wife has dropped it. The purpose of listening is so that your wife will examine her negative ideas, and then forget about all the destructive concepts.

Thank you for sharing your ideas on foreplay. There are many approaches to massage. I have a number of videos, and have read some posts on forums dedicated to foreplay. I suggest you search foreplay, and try various approaches. It may be that your wife has sensitive skin, and the sliding of the hands across the skin, as used in many massage techniques, may not work for your wife. So I would use that information, and suggest a massage technique, that does not utilize rubbing across the skin. Or maybe the massuese did not use an oil with maximum lubricity. There are varous brands of body oil, and you might find a brand that works for her skin.

Without rubbing her skin at all, you can still perform a massage. You can do this by placing your finger tips on a muscle, and pressing down lightly into the muscle, and move your finger tips in 1/4 inch tiny circles, without causing any abrasion to the skin. Obviously, I do not know which muscles may be receptive on your wife. Also, different muscles are receptive at different times of arousal, or different times of the month. Dr. Haltzman's book mentions that when women are in their fertile days, they are especially recptive to advances.

Let us examine places to start a finger pressure massage, with 1/4 inch circles and light pressure. You can use varying numbers of fingers, to test various effects. On each side of the back bone, are two large muscle groups, in the alluvial canal. So move your handacross her back, find her back bone, and then find the muscles in the canal on the side, and press ligthly into the muscle, and move your fingers in 1/4 inch circles, gently, count to 3, and release your hand. Don't worry that your wife says at first, but wait a few minutes, and then see what her facial expressions are. Women have cycles of reappraoch of 3 to 7 mnutes. It is important for you to find how many minutes to wait. Your wife may express irritation on your first touch. But her feelings may evolve to pleasure in a few minutes.

The alluvial canals are more sexually stimulating in the lower back. So you might start in the upper part of the back, and then move down. You might start with 3 seconds, and then if you are not getting rejected, extend to 5 to 10 to 20 second light pressure tiny circles. You might search "sexual accupressure". With many of the accupuncture points, there are pleasure pressure points for massage. The neck is another point to start. There are muscles that attach the skull to the neck bones, that can be massaged just above the hair line There are muscles on each side of the neck bone. The Neck and spine bones are sensitive, and you shuold avoid contacting the disks of the spine and neck bones, but work the muscles beside the spine, an inch or so from the spine.

So you can contact the muscles, and using light pressure, you should avoid damaging any nerves. Theoretically, it is possible, with deep heavy massage, to damage a nerve. Rolfing is a disciplne of deep muscle massage, that has a 3 year course of instruction, on how to avoid nerve damage when using heavy pressure to certain musles. The theory is that as muscles receive pressure, and when the pressure is released, that the mucle will produce endorphin chemicals which give a sensation of pleasure. The thigh and calf muscles are large muscles, that can be lightly squeezed, and then released. In the next 3 to five minutes, the mind will receive a pleasurable feeling from the endorphins.

Foreplay for men is short. For women, they build up feelings over several days. So don't expect quick results. You should be able to read your wife's body language to see an increase in pleasure. Then maybe two finger tips on each side of a nipple, touch, circle, release. The pubic mound, the area above the clitoris, is sesitive. You don't need to rub the skin, just touch with your finger tips, press lightly, and tiny circles, count to 3, and release. For the clitoris, you will need some lubrication. There are water soluble lubricants that are supposed to be more compatible wtih the vaginal fluids, and oil inside the vagina is thought to contribute to yeast infections, but you will need some kind of lubricant for even light finger pressures to the vulva on each side of the clitoris. Push the vuvla to the side, away from the clitors, at first.



//
ThunderHorse
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:45 am

Buy some expensive after-shave. Ask the ladies at a higher end department store, and ask the lady sales clerks for advice. You may need to try a few brands till you find what your wife enjoys.

There are books and tapes avaialble on the internet for sexaul accupressure. A light, short squeeze to the large muscles in her rear, might release some pleasurable endorphins within a few minutes.

Again, the reason for listening, and encouraging your wife to epress all her ideas, is so that she can sort things out, and put the negative ideas aside. So don't bring up things that she has already put aside, like separation. If your wife is not bringing up separation, then she has the matter resolved in her mind.

I think you can give your wife a chance to think things through, using the Boring Response for negatives, and then see where you stand. But your past buying into her negativity, with arguing, may take a few weeks to be forgotten/forgiven.

Have you asked your wife to pray for your daughter? What are your daughter's challenges at the moment? Who is not nice to your daughter at school? Can you ask your wife to pray for your daughter to have good friends, and be protected from unkind people? Part of being a mother can be praying for the best intgerests of your child. So to let your wife find who she is, ask her to pray for your daughter.


//
ThunderHorse
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:18 am

To Needing Direction,

You seem to doubt your magnetism. What about Jimmy Durante? Durante had a big nose, but he had a TV show with beautiful people. Your magnetism has to do with your inner feelings of creating attraction, charisma and charm.

Get a joke book to keep in your locker at work, and try to make your daughter laugh when you get home. Make your wife laugh when your daugter is not impressed with your attempts to be funny.

Your job as a husband is also to keep your daughter's mother entertained.


//
ThunderHorse
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby ThunderHorse » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:31 pm

To Needing Direction:

I hope you are doing better. I hope I have been respectful to your feelings, during your 10 posts on this thread. I expressed ideas to make certain points.
Some people stop posting once they understand the principles of listening and the Boring response. Hope my wide range of comments have not offended you in some way. If so, let me know so I can appologize. Emotional intelligence is different from getting good grades in school. Getting along wtih people is a different set of skills than getting higher paying jobs.

I have applied the concepts of Listening, Boring Responses and foreplay to my marriage, There is a chapter on Foreplay in the Husband's Secrets book, discussing phases of early foreplay. I have been checking back to see if you posted for further discussion. Hope you are finding ways to enjoy your wife.



//
ThunderHorse
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby needing direction » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:13 pm

So here's an update, last night 12/4/12. My wife said to me, " I have a clearer idea of what I want pertaining to the separation". She said, "I can pick our daughter up from school on my days off from work, then stay at the house through dinner, but after she goes to bed she wants me to leave". She also said, "I wouldn't have to move any of my stuff out right now, but would want to work in that direction". She also said, " we would still have to figure out how to handle the weekends". So I said, "to be clear this isn't for the purpose of reconciling our marriage"? She said, "she can't see that happening because she isn't happy right now, and wants me to (move on) because if I stay she won't know if this is what she wants". She wants me to move on as if we are no longer in a marriage. But she also said, "she doesn't know if this will make her happy either".

So in this scenario I see me getting my daughter from school as I do now mainly because I want to but also so my wife can workout after work. But I don't see me doing any of the house work that I do now other than the dishes if I'm having dinner with them. But no vacuuming, taking out the trash, cleaning the bathrooms, mowing the lawn, doing the laundry ect as i currently do. Is this the wrong view to have? I think this may help her realize how much I add to our marriage. To make another point on this. Since I realize that my marriage will be ending, I have been working more to pay down some bills so I picked up an extra shift at my part time job this Saturday (notified my wife before actually taking the extra shift and she agreed i should for the money). My daughter has Cheer practice from 8-9 and my wife scheduled a hair appointment that will take 2 hours ( coloring and cut ). Now realizing that I can't take my daughter to cheer and watch her, my wife is scrambling to find someone who can watch her while she goes to the salon. Even asking if I would ask my neighbor if he and his wife would watch her (why can't she ask). They have in the past and we are really close so that's not a problem, but they can't. So now she is faced with take my daughter to the salon for 2 hours or cancel. I'm hoping she realizes that this won't be easy and that I can help. Am I delusional on this and it won't matter? Since she stepped out of this marriage months maybe years ago, would she be able to step back in? Or is it once you've stepped out mentally you're out? She also has no support system with in an hour of where we live due to most of her family living in Chicago and we live a few states South. She does have a sister closer but a little over an hour away. So it's me and my sister that are her support system. She would even admit that she doesn't have close friends for whatever reason.


So I'm at a cross road on what to do! Do I shift out gradually to allow her to see what she wants? Do I stay my ground and refuse to leave if it's not to work on our relationship? Because once I have one foot out the door it's a hell of a lot easier to push the other one behind it! I want to do what's best for my family, in terms of my daughter. But I'm also torn with if me shifting out helps my wife shouldn't I do that? My mind is going a thousand different ways on this one....!

Please help,

I'm Needing Direction..............
needing direction
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:52 pm

Re: Wife want's to not have sex so we can focus on our marri

Postby Scott Haltzman » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Needing.
I think your instincts are right. If you do less, she will appreciate what you bring to the table. That doesn't include being vindictive, angry, or petty, rather just defining your role and sticking to it. I think it is difficult for men (more so than for women) to insist that they stay at home when their wives want to separate because it can appear to be bullying. But you have the option to use words: "We separate because it is what you want, but I believe that our marriage is worth fighting for, so it is no what I want."
It sounds like you're getting more clarity as time progresses
Scott Haltzman
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:30 pm
Location: Barrington, RI

PreviousNext

Return to Intimacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron